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Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice

by stephane ducasse

I was a good one :) Stef On Sep 8, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Andreas Rosenberg wrote: > Yes, we are still using Digitalk Visual Smalltalk. > > We did a presentation about our efforts to keep it alive at ESUG 2008 in > Amsterdam: > > http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2008/A%20Moribund%20Smalltalk%20st > ill%20alive%20and%20kicking%3A%20The%20APIS%20VisualSmalltalk%20IDE?_s=g-5d5 > pKDIUCnaLYZ > <http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2008/A%20Moribund%20Smalltalk%20s > till%20alive%20and%20kicking%3A%20The%20APIS%20VisualSmalltalk%20IDE?_s=g-5d > 5pKDIUCnaLYZ&_k=2Nhf_0Bb-GKGSvlV&_n&24> &_k=2Nhf_0Bb-GKGSvlV&_n&24 > > Andreas Rosenberg | eMail: andreas.rosenberg(a)apis.de > APIS GmbH | Phone: +49 9482 9415-0 > Im Haslet 42 | Fax: +49 9482 9415-55 > 93086 Wörth/D | WWW: < http://www.apis.de/ <http://www.apis.de/> > > Germany | < http://www.fmea.de/ <http://www.fmea.de/> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: esug-list-bounces(a)lists.esug.org > [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org]On Behalf Of Steven Kelly > Sent: Mittwoch, 8. September 2010 11:13 > To: Henrik Høyer; The general-purpose Squeak developers list; ESUG Mailing > list > Subject: Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk > Enterprice > > > > If you are continuing to use VSE, please reply to the list with at least a > simple "Yes". > > > > I have no interest in VSE, but Henrik has asked twice and got no replies (on > this list), so let's at least help reduce a fellow Smalltalker's > frustration. > > > > Cheers, > > Steve > > > > > > From: esug-list-bounces(a)lists.esug.org > [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org] On Behalf Of Henrik Høyer > Sent: 7. syyskuuta 2010 22:04 > To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list; ESUG Mailing list > Subject: Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk > Enterprice > > > > Dear all > > > > From the reactions to my post, I fear that people might have misunderstood > me. Bear in mind, that I am not a native English speaker - though my > language might sound harsh and offensive, I do have the best intensions. > > > > The subject of the original post should perhaps have been: "Is Cincom slowly > killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprise *customers*". Who shot VSE a long time > ago is another discussion. As are the discussion of how/whether one > could/should port the applications to other Smalltalk dialects. > > > > My focus is entirely on how the current VSE users can extend the life of > their applications on the VSE platform. Even though development on VSE > stopped more than 10 years ago, the applications are still running today on > current operating system versions and with on-par performance. > > > > Part of VSE is closed source; The VM, the compiler and several other stuff. > Though clever hacking/patching bugs in these closed parts of VSE have been > fixes by the community since the official development stopped. But Cincom > (who has the exclusive rights to make money from supporting the product) has > now unleashed its lawyers, and are threatening some of the most active > people in the community. The amount of "lawyer muscle" behind the threats > are actually keeping people from even replying to this post. > > > > I did have a deep respect for Cincom; they have done a great job for the > Smalltalk community. I don't know where in their organization the "money > matters more than ethics" policy is in action. It is not among the Smalltalk > people we all know, but the ones who are pulling the strings are in fact > doing a lot of damage to their corporate image. > > > > I know that some Cincom employees have commented on my post, but I still > have had no answers to the main question: > > > > Are Cincom willing to donate/sell their "exclusive exploratory rights to the > VSE product"? > > > > Please note: The question is not about the IP. It is only about the rights > that Cincom holds, oh and by the way; are Cincom willing to disclose the > contact they have with Seagull regarding these rights? > > > > With all the best intensions > > > > > > > <http://www.sPeople.dk> sPeople Logo > > Henrik Høyer > > > Chief Software Architect > > > <mailto:hh@sppl.dk> hh(a)sppl.dk * (+45) 4029 2092 > > > Rued Langgaards Vej 7 * 2300 Kbh. S > > > <http://www.sPeople.dk> www.sPeople.dk * (+45) 7023 7775 > > > > > > > > > <winmail.dat>_______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

Sept. 8, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice

by Andreas Rosenberg

Yes, we are still using Digitalk Visual Smalltalk. We did a presentation about our efforts to keep it alive at ESUG 2008 in Amsterdam: http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2008/A%20Moribund%20Smalltalk%20st ill%20alive%20and%20kicking%3A%20The%20APIS%20VisualSmalltalk%20IDE?_s=g-5d5 pKDIUCnaLYZ <http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2008/A%20Moribund%20Smalltalk%20s till%20alive%20and%20kicking%3A%20The%20APIS%20VisualSmalltalk%20IDE?_s=g-5d 5pKDIUCnaLYZ&_k=2Nhf_0Bb-GKGSvlV&_n&24> &_k=2Nhf_0Bb-GKGSvlV&_n&24 Andreas Rosenberg | eMail: andreas.rosenberg(a)apis.de APIS GmbH | Phone: +49 9482 9415-0 Im Haslet 42 | Fax: +49 9482 9415-55 93086 Wörth/D | WWW: < http://www.apis.de/ <http://www.apis.de/> > Germany | < http://www.fmea.de/ <http://www.fmea.de/> > -----Original Message----- From: esug-list-bounces(a)lists.esug.org [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org]On Behalf Of Steven Kelly Sent: Mittwoch, 8. September 2010 11:13 To: Henrik Høyer; The general-purpose Squeak developers list; ESUG Mailing list Subject: Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice If you are continuing to use VSE, please reply to the list with at least a simple "Yes". I have no interest in VSE, but Henrik has asked twice and got no replies (on this list), so let's at least help reduce a fellow Smalltalker's frustration. Cheers, Steve From: esug-list-bounces(a)lists.esug.org [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org] On Behalf Of Henrik Høyer Sent: 7. syyskuuta 2010 22:04 To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list; ESUG Mailing list Subject: Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice Dear all >From the reactions to my post, I fear that people might have misunderstood me. Bear in mind, that I am not a native English speaker - though my language might sound harsh and offensive, I do have the best intensions. The subject of the original post should perhaps have been: "Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprise *customers*". Who shot VSE a long time ago is another discussion. As are the discussion of how/whether one could/should port the applications to other Smalltalk dialects. My focus is entirely on how the current VSE users can extend the life of their applications on the VSE platform. Even though development on VSE stopped more than 10 years ago, the applications are still running today on current operating system versions and with on-par performance. Part of VSE is closed source; The VM, the compiler and several other stuff. Though clever hacking/patching bugs in these closed parts of VSE have been fixes by the community since the official development stopped. But Cincom (who has the exclusive rights to make money from supporting the product) has now unleashed its lawyers, and are threatening some of the most active people in the community. The amount of "lawyer muscle" behind the threats are actually keeping people from even replying to this post. I did have a deep respect for Cincom; they have done a great job for the Smalltalk community. I don't know where in their organization the "money matters more than ethics" policy is in action. It is not among the Smalltalk people we all know, but the ones who are pulling the strings are in fact doing a lot of damage to their corporate image. I know that some Cincom employees have commented on my post, but I still have had no answers to the main question: Are Cincom willing to donate/sell their "exclusive exploratory rights to the VSE product"? Please note: The question is not about the IP. It is only about the rights that Cincom holds, oh and by the way; are Cincom willing to disclose the contact they have with Seagull regarding these rights? With all the best intensions <http://www.sPeople.dk> sPeople Logo Henrik Høyer Chief Software Architect <mailto:hh@sppl.dk> hh(a)sppl.dk * (+45) 4029 2092 Rued Langgaards Vej 7 * 2300 Kbh. S <http://www.sPeople.dk> www.sPeople.dk * (+45) 7023 7775

Sept. 8, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice

by Steven Kelly

If you are continuing to use VSE, please reply to the list with at least a simple "Yes". I have no interest in VSE, but Henrik has asked twice and got no replies (on this list), so let's at least help reduce a fellow Smalltalker's frustration. Cheers, Steve From: esug-list-bounces(a)lists.esug.org [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org] On Behalf Of Henrik Høyer Sent: 7. syyskuuta 2010 22:04 To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list; ESUG Mailing list Subject: Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice Dear all >From the reactions to my post, I fear that people might have misunderstood me. Bear in mind, that I am not a native English speaker - though my language might sound harsh and offensive, I do have the best intensions. The subject of the original post should perhaps have been: "Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprise *customers*". Who shot VSE a long time ago is another discussion. As are the discussion of how/whether one could/should port the applications to other Smalltalk dialects. My focus is entirely on how the current VSE users can extend the life of their applications on the VSE platform. Even though development on VSE stopped more than 10 years ago, the applications are still running today on current operating system versions and with on-par performance. Part of VSE is closed source; The VM, the compiler and several other stuff. Though clever hacking/patching bugs in these closed parts of VSE have been fixes by the community since the official development stopped. But Cincom (who has the exclusive rights to make money from supporting the product) has now unleashed its lawyers, and are threatening some of the most active people in the community. The amount of "lawyer muscle" behind the threats are actually keeping people from even replying to this post. I did have a deep respect for Cincom; they have done a great job for the Smalltalk community. I don't know where in their organization the "money matters more than ethics" policy is in action. It is not among the Smalltalk people we all know, but the ones who are pulling the strings are in fact doing a lot of damage to their corporate image. I know that some Cincom employees have commented on my post, but I still have had no answers to the main question: Are Cincom willing to donate/sell their "exclusive exploratory rights to the VSE product"? Please note: The question is not about the IP. It is only about the rights that Cincom holds, oh and by the way; are Cincom willing to disclose the contact they have with Seagull regarding these rights? With all the best intensions <http://www.sPeople.dk> Henrik Høyer Chief Software Architect hh(a)sppl.dk <mailto:hh@sppl.dk> * (+45) 4029 2092 Rued Langgaards Vej 7 * 2300 Kbh. S www.sPeople.dk <http://www.sPeople.dk> * (+45) 7023 7775

Sept. 8, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice

by Henrik Høyer

Dear all >From the reactions to my post, I fear that people might have misunderstood me. Bear in mind, that I am not a native English speaker - though my language might sound harsh and offensive, I do have the best intensions. The subject of the original post should perhaps have been: "Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprise *customers*". Who shot VSE a long time ago is another discussion. As are the discussion of how/whether one could/should port the applications to other Smalltalk dialects. My focus is entirely on how the current VSE users can extend the life of their applications on the VSE platform. Even though development on VSE stopped more than 10 years ago, the applications are still running today on current operating system versions and with on-par performance. Part of VSE is closed source; The VM, the compiler and several other stuff. Though clever hacking/patching bugs in these closed parts of VSE have been fixes by the community since the official development stopped. But Cincom (who has the exclusive rights to make money from supporting the product) has now unleashed its lawyers, and are threatening some of the most active people in the community. The amount of "lawyer muscle" behind the threats are actually keeping people from even replying to this post. I did have a deep respect for Cincom; they have done a great job for the Smalltalk community. I don't know where in their organization the "money matters more than ethics" policy is in action. It is not among the Smalltalk people we all know, but the ones who are pulling the strings are in fact doing a lot of damage to their corporate image. I know that some Cincom employees have commented on my post, but I still have had no answers to the main question: Are Cincom willing to donate/sell their "exclusive exploratory rights to the VSE product"? Please note: The question is not about the IP. It is only about the rights that Cincom holds, oh and by the way; are Cincom willing to disclose the contact they have with Seagull regarding these rights? With all the best intensions [cid:speoplelogo1eb.png]<http://www.sPeople.dk> Henrik Høyer Chief Software Architect hh(a)sppl.dk<mailto:hh@sppl.dk> * (+45) 4029 2092 Rued Langgaards Vej 7 * 2300 Kbh. S www.sPeople.dk<http://www.sPeople.dk> * (+45) 7023 7775

Sept. 7, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] [squeak-dev] Re: Vote for the best Smalltalk book of the last 5 years...

by stephane ducasse

Thanks Bert! We should make more noise and get new writers. Stef > I for one am happy that there were enough books written about Smalltalk that we can have a competition. > > Thank you for organizing the contest, ESUG. > > Now let's spread the word and vote: > > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Q2LKKDT > > In case this got lost in the unnecessary side discussion, it's open to Wednesday, Sept. 15 noon CEST. > > - Bert - > > (Squeak Oversight Board member, speaking for myself) > >

Sept. 7, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] supporting the spanish translation of Pharo by example

by Mariano Martinez Peck

I am in the half too. What it is a pity is that it is like that since 4 months .... :( I started to write a chapter for Metacello for PBE2 and all my time allocated to that went there :( On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 2:35 PM, stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)gmail.com > wrote: > +1 > Jordi no stress!!!! > We should just keep the ball rolling. > And apparently you are not the only one. :) > Stef > > > > take it easy !! We will reorganize the work soon ... No worries > > > > Gabi > > > > 2010/9/7 Jordi Delgado <jdelgado(a)lsi.upc.edu> > > Hi, > > > > Shame on me, but guilty as charged... I had to translate chap. 13, I am > still > > half way and it is not even uploaded to the repository. > > I have not been completely commited to the translation. Perhaps I may use > > Smalltalk camp to finish this before doing anything else. > > > > Sorry, > > > > Bests, > > > > Jordi > > > > > > > Hi guys > > > > > > I heard that the spanish translation of the pharo by example book is at > 50%. :( > > > So please contact Gabriela Arevalo <gabriela.b.arevalo(a)gmail.com> to > help. > > > I cannot believe that you will not get it done. > > > > > > Stef > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Esug-list mailing list > > > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > > > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Esug-list mailing list > > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >

Sept. 7, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] Vote for the best Smalltalk book of the last 5 years...

by Bert Freudenberg

I for one am happy that there were enough books written about Smalltalk that we can have a competition. Thank you for organizing the contest, ESUG. Now let's spread the word and vote: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Q2LKKDT In case this got lost in the unnecessary side discussion, it's open to Wednesday, Sept. 15 noon CEST. - Bert - (Squeak Oversight Board member, speaking for myself)

Sept. 7, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] Vote for the best Smalltalk book of the last 5 years...

by Stéphane Ducasse

oops! We did not listed japanese books only english ones (but this is ok since we removed the french ones too). On Sep 7, 2010, at 10:34 AM, Serge Stinckwich wrote: > ok i push this announce to japanese Smalltalk mailing-list. > Regards, > > On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Stéphane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> I forgot to mention that the deadline is until wednesday 15 at noon. >> On Sep 6, 2010, at 5:06 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: >> >>> Dear Smalltalkers >>> >>> this year ESUG would like to reward effort made in book publications. Since we want to push new books but that it takes time to write books we will >>> take into account a window of 5 years. So you are requested to vote for the best book of the last 5 years. >>> >>> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Q2LKKDT >>> >>> Stef on the behalf of the ESUG board. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Esug-list mailing list >>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >> > > > > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://doesnotunderstand.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

Sept. 7, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] supporting the spanish translation of Pharo by example

by stephane ducasse

+1 Jordi no stress!!!! We should just keep the ball rolling. And apparently you are not the only one. :) Stef > take it easy !! We will reorganize the work soon ... No worries > > Gabi > > 2010/9/7 Jordi Delgado <jdelgado(a)lsi.upc.edu> > Hi, > > Shame on me, but guilty as charged... I had to translate chap. 13, I am still > half way and it is not even uploaded to the repository. > I have not been completely commited to the translation. Perhaps I may use > Smalltalk camp to finish this before doing anything else. > > Sorry, > > Bests, > > Jordi > > > > Hi guys > > > > I heard that the spanish translation of the pharo by example book is at 50%. :( > > So please contact Gabriela Arevalo <gabriela.b.arevalo(a)gmail.com> to help. > > I cannot believe that you will not get it done. > > > > Stef > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Esug-list mailing list > > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >

Sept. 7, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] [Pharo-users] Vote for the best Smalltalk book of the last 5 years...

by stephane ducasse

+1 Thanks noury. This is fun to feel bashed for trying to move and get our community more exposure. Stef On Sep 7, 2010, at 10:15 AM, Noury Bouraqadi wrote: > Sorry Andreas. I don't see the conflict of interest. > You cleary missunderstood the point. > > ESUG is just an engine for moving the Smalltalk community forward. > The ESUG board will not decide which is the best book, this is why the vote is open to the community. > Nevertheless, ESUG board members likewise other Smalltalkers can submit their work. > > We spent time listing books about Smalltalk. And one of our conclusion is that the community is not very strong on this point, since we have only few authors (Andrès Valloud, Stéphane, ...). And we are lucky to have them. > > The goal of ESUG is to promote Smalltalk. > Showing that Smalltalk books are valuable and encouraging people to write is the point here. > > We want MORE SMALLTALK BOOKS! > This is the message that everybody should remember. > > Noury > http://car.mines-douai.fr/noury > ---- > -18th International Smalltalk Joint Conference, September 13 -17 2010 Barcelona, Spain. > http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2010 > > -18ème Journées Francophones des Systèmes Multi-Agents (JFSMA), 18-20 october 2010, Mahdia, Tunisia. > http://www.ltim.org/jfsma10/accueil.php > > -The SIMPAR 2010 International Workshop on Dynamic languages for RObotic and Sensors systems (DYROS), november 2010 - Darmstadt, Germany. > http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/wikka.php?wakka=DYROS10 > > -4th Argentinian Smalltalks Conference November 11th - 13th, 2010, Concepción del Uruguay, Entre Ríos, Argentina > http://www.fast.org.ar/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

Sept. 7, 2010