March 2011 - Esug-list - lists.esug.org

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by Dale Henrichs

At the moment, all I can say is that we are headed that way, but there are several things that need to be done along the way. Dale On Mar 31, 2011, at 1:15 PM, stephane ducasse wrote: >> >> Wouldn't it be great to have a force.com like concept with a Smalltalk >> backend on Seaside (or Aida or Iliad) with a cloud based objectstore >> using GemStone (or Magma, or Amazon S3). Oh and please one frigging >> Smalltalk dialect so I don't have the really useful library that I'd >> love to use only available in the flavour of Smalltalk that I'm not >> currently using. > > YES! > We thought that gemstone thought that they have the technology to jump in the cloud but > so far this is not clear. > > Stef > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

March 31, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by stephane ducasse

> > Wouldn't it be great to have a force.com like concept with a Smalltalk > backend on Seaside (or Aida or Iliad) with a cloud based objectstore > using GemStone (or Magma, or Amazon S3). Oh and please one frigging > Smalltalk dialect so I don't have the really useful library that I'd > love to use only available in the flavour of Smalltalk that I'm not > currently using. YES! We thought that gemstone thought that they have the technology to jump in the cloud but so far this is not clear. Stef

March 31, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by Юрий Мироненко

> do you have any more info on smallPOS? > Giorgio Ferraris > Excellent > do you have a web presence? > Stef Well, only very basic presence are here: http://code.google.com/p/smalltalkpos/ for issue tracker and for static files, needed for work http://squeaksource.com/SmallPOS.html for code itself http://rsug.ru/rsugProjects/SmallPOS/ - page about my project at Russian Smalltalk Users Group. But it on russian, as you may expect. Actually, it's now something to support my development, not to promote/demonstrate the system. Wiki on squeaksource and one of subpages have some installation/deployment instruction, but they are not very usefull for others - I just collect this information to not forget it. Some time ago there was a live demo on RSUG, but now it is VERY outdated, actual system is absolutely different. Well, I working on this, smallpos.ru domen was registered. I started to write documentation. And I feel I need some demo application, but I have no idea for "cool" one. It should be something with easy-to-understand business process, it should be possible to demonstrate cool features and deep customizing...and, contrary, it should be possible to start it from very basic CRUD functionality. If you have an idea for such a demo - please tell me :) Giorgio, now - some brief description, if it's something you asking for.

March 30, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by Miguel Sanchez

OK, So I'm probably coming into the discussion at about the point when everyone has lost interest and gone back to work on super-cool VM extensions or hardcore simulations in Croquet or whatever. First let me do a negative introduction by telling you what I'm not. I'm not a SmallTalk programmer (I'm working on that) I'm hardly a programmer at all(been doing product managery type of stuff for far too long.) When I first saw DabbleDB (+- 3 yrs ago) I thought, "Wow!!! That is brilliant! I want some of that." So I started reading on SmallTalk and reading and reading........ I've read up on Squeak, Pharo, VW, VA. Dolphin, Gnu, you name it I read papers by Kay, Goldberg, Ingalls. I've read on Traits, AOP, Collections (I even listened to Alice's Restaurant). It's kind of sad that I've not actually done much programming. I attended ESUG 2010 (as I live in Barcelona.) The frustrations I've found have been discussed at great length in this thread so I'm not repeating them. Despite all of this there is something that I find attractive about the concept of Smalltalk, that keeps drawing me back to it. Maybe it's the liveness. the concept of the sea of objects, the combination of data and logic cohabiting that seems to have some "rightness" about it. Anyway when I read that VMWare had purchased GemStone via SpringSource last year, I thought, "Brilliant move.". I thought they were capitalizing on the GemStone product to build a force.com ObjectStore. I was partly right. It turns out they planned to use GemFire which is Java. Bummer. The force.com idea is pretty good. It's a cloud based execution platform for user contributed programs, starting with salesforce.com. The environment, language and applications are Ugggghly! Wouldn't it be great to have a force.com like concept with a Smalltalk backend on Seaside (or Aida or Iliad) with a cloud based objectstore using GemStone (or Magma, or Amazon S3). Oh and please one frigging Smalltalk dialect so I don't have the really useful library that I'd love to use only available in the flavour of Smalltalk that I'm not currently using. Anyway I've had way too much caffeine this morning and that's probably why I'm babbling. I'll go back to my quite little corner of the world and you'll never have to hear from me again as I go back to my product managery stuff :-( Cheers, Miguel On 17 March 2011 10:59, Geert Claes <geert.wl.claes(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Smalltalk does have open source blog and content management systems; e.g. > http://www.piercms.com Pier CMS and http://www.aidaweb.si/scribo.html > AIDAscribo ... but a lot can be improved to make them attractive > alternatives to the big http://www.drupal.org Drupal (PHP) and > http://www.joomla.org Joomla (PHP) or even smaller ones like > http://radiantcms.org Radiant CMS (Ruby) , http://www.refinerycms.com > Refinery CMS (Ruby) , http://www.django-cms.org Django CMS (Python) , etc > > Smalltalk will get more exposure if it were easier (and cheaper) for people > to host their own blog or website using a Smalltalk based Blog/CMS. > > Question is; what can be done to have more Smalltalkers use a Smalltalk > based blog system and attract non-Smalltalkers to try a Smalltalk CMS? > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-hosting-tp3384077p3384077.html > Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >

March 29, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by stephane ducasse

Excellent do you have a web presence? Stef On Mar 27, 2011, at 11:17 PM, Юрий Мироненко wrote: > Well, just to avoid talking-and-not-doing feeling... > > I made/making SmallPOS framework, Pharo\Seaside\GLORP\Magritte-based. Initially oriented on small businesses with not-standart business processes, it provides possibility for really fast prototyping...and, for example, connecting hardware (like label printers and barcode scanners) on client side. > > Now I want to see how opensource development model may work. So, I'll do my best to present it on ESUG conference...if I'll successed with visa this year. > > > Sun, 27 Mar 2011 17:09:20 +0200 письмо от Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > >> Thanks sean. >> >> We are always trying to improve ourselves and we accept and value criticism. >> Now there are moments where I would like to see more doing than talking. >> >> Stef >> >>> Steven and Andrew, >>> >>> Thank you for taking the time to point out where things can be improved. >>> >>> I propose that all criticism - right, wrong, good, bad, whatever - be >>> answered in the same way: "Thank you." >>> >>> I personally am grateful for the HUGE amount of work done by the ESUG, >>> Squeak & Pharo teams. And, I'm sure it can be demoralizing to be one of the >>> people putting in all that effort (probably for free) and hear criticism. >>> >>> That having been said, I cringe every time criticism is met with resistance, >>> frustration, or defensiveness. Criticism is solid gold - all of it. It is a >>> wake-up call to how our community is perceived from the outside. The truth >>> doesn't matter! It's all about perception. I think it would be far more >>> valuable to pull in as much criticism as possible than to explain it away >>> point by point. Let's give critics water and sunlight to flourish on our >>> mailing lists and smack us awake, rather than throw up their hands and move >>> silently to a different language/community. >>> >>> Of course, after the "thank you", relevant info like "such and such has been >>> fixed" or "an engineer would really help move things along here" would be >>> great, resting on a foundation of acknowledgement and gratitude that someone >>> took the time to reach out instead of disappearing or gossiping, providing a >>> service to the community. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-hosting-tp3384077p3407992.html >>> Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Esug-list mailing list >>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

March 28, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by Steve Cline

Amen, brudda! Criticism is an opportunity. On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com>wrote: > Steven and Andrew, > > Thank you for taking the time to point out where things can be improved. > > I propose that all criticism - right, wrong, good, bad, whatever - be > answered in the same way: "Thank you." > > I personally am grateful for the HUGE amount of work done by the ESUG, > Squeak & Pharo teams. And, I'm sure it can be demoralizing to be one of the > people putting in all that effort (probably for free) and hear criticism. > > That having been said, I cringe every time criticism is met with > resistance, > frustration, or defensiveness. Criticism is solid gold - all of it. It is a > wake-up call to how our community is perceived from the outside. The truth > doesn't matter! It's all about perception. I think it would be far more > valuable to pull in as much criticism as possible than to explain it away > point by point. Let's give critics water and sunlight to flourish on our > mailing lists and smack us awake, rather than throw up their hands and move > silently to a different language/community. > > Of course, after the "thank you", relevant info like "such and such has > been > fixed" or "an engineer would really help move things along here" would be > great, resting on a foundation of acknowledgement and gratitude that > someone > took the time to reach out instead of disappearing or gossiping, providing > a > service to the community. > > Sean > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-hosting-tp3384077p3407992.html > Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > -- Steve Cline cline(a)acm.org http://www.clines.org http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevecline "Do what's right, and try to get along with people, in that order" - Ezra Taft Benson

March 28, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by Юрий Мироненко

Well, just to avoid talking-and-not-doing feeling... I made/making SmallPOS framework, Pharo\Seaside\GLORP\Magritte-based. Initially oriented on small businesses with not-standart business processes, it provides possibility for really fast prototyping...and, for example, connecting hardware (like label printers and barcode scanners) on client side. Now I want to see how opensource development model may work. So, I'll do my best to present it on ESUG conference...if I'll successed with visa this year. Sun, 27 Mar 2011 17:09:20 +0200 письмо от Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > Thanks sean. > > We are always trying to improve ourselves and we accept and value criticism. > Now there are moments where I would like to see more doing than talking. > > Stef > > > Steven and Andrew, > > > > Thank you for taking the time to point out where things can be improved. > > > > I propose that all criticism - right, wrong, good, bad, whatever - be > > answered in the same way: "Thank you." > > > > I personally am grateful for the HUGE amount of work done by the ESUG, > > Squeak & Pharo teams. And, I'm sure it can be demoralizing to be one of the > > people putting in all that effort (probably for free) and hear criticism. > > > > That having been said, I cringe every time criticism is met with resistance, > > frustration, or defensiveness. Criticism is solid gold - all of it. It is a > > wake-up call to how our community is perceived from the outside. The truth > > doesn't matter! It's all about perception. I think it would be far more > > valuable to pull in as much criticism as possible than to explain it away > > point by point. Let's give critics water and sunlight to flourish on our > > mailing lists and smack us awake, rather than throw up their hands and move > > silently to a different language/community. > > > > Of course, after the "thank you", relevant info like "such and such has been > > fixed" or "an engineer would really help move things along here" would be > > great, resting on a foundation of acknowledgement and gratitude that someone > > took the time to reach out instead of disappearing or gossiping, providing a > > service to the community. > > > > Sean > > > > -- > > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-hosting-tp3384077p3407992.html > > Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Esug-list mailing list > > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

March 27, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by Stéphane Ducasse

Thanks sean. We are always trying to improve ourselves and we accept and value criticism. Now there are moments where I would like to see more doing than talking. Stef > Steven and Andrew, > > Thank you for taking the time to point out where things can be improved. > > I propose that all criticism - right, wrong, good, bad, whatever - be > answered in the same way: "Thank you." > > I personally am grateful for the HUGE amount of work done by the ESUG, > Squeak & Pharo teams. And, I'm sure it can be demoralizing to be one of the > people putting in all that effort (probably for free) and hear criticism. > > That having been said, I cringe every time criticism is met with resistance, > frustration, or defensiveness. Criticism is solid gold - all of it. It is a > wake-up call to how our community is perceived from the outside. The truth > doesn't matter! It's all about perception. I think it would be far more > valuable to pull in as much criticism as possible than to explain it away > point by point. Let's give critics water and sunlight to flourish on our > mailing lists and smack us awake, rather than throw up their hands and move > silently to a different language/community. > > Of course, after the "thank you", relevant info like "such and such has been > fixed" or "an engineer would really help move things along here" would be > great, resting on a foundation of acknowledgement and gratitude that someone > took the time to reach out instead of disappearing or gossiping, providing a > service to the community. > > Sean > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-hosting-tp3384077p3407992.html > Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

March 27, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by Tim Mackinnon

Sean - thought this was a wonderful message. I agree that the hard work of the Squeak, Pharo, Vm + other teams has been awesome. I find it's rejuvenated Smalltalk and the enthusiasm is contagious. For everyone that contributed to this thread - I've thanks for the ideas - I'm certainly still very encouraged to setup a blog using Smalltalk! Tim On 26 Mar 2011, at 17:20, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > Steven and Andrew, > > Thank you for taking the time to point out where things can be improved. > > I propose that all criticism - right, wrong, good, bad, whatever - be > answered in the same way: "Thank you." > > I personally am grateful for the HUGE amount of work done by the ESUG, > Squeak & Pharo teams. And, I'm sure it can be demoralizing to be one of the > people putting in all that effort (probably for free) and hear criticism. > > That having been said, I cringe every time criticism is met with resistance, > frustration, or defensiveness. Criticism is solid gold - all of it. It is a > wake-up call to how our community is perceived from the outside. The truth > doesn't matter! It's all about perception. I think it would be far more > valuable to pull in as much criticism as possible than to explain it away > point by point. Let's give critics water and sunlight to flourish on our > mailing lists and smack us awake, rather than throw up their hands and move > silently to a different language/community. > > Of course, after the "thank you", relevant info like "such and such has been > fixed" or "an engineer would really help move things along here" would be > great, resting on a foundation of acknowledgement and gratitude that someone > took the time to reach out instead of disappearing or gossiping, providing a > service to the community. > > Sean > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-hosting-tp3384077p3407992.html > Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

March 26, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by Sean P. DeNigris

Steven and Andrew, Thank you for taking the time to point out where things can be improved. I propose that all criticism - right, wrong, good, bad, whatever - be answered in the same way: "Thank you." I personally am grateful for the HUGE amount of work done by the ESUG, Squeak & Pharo teams. And, I'm sure it can be demoralizing to be one of the people putting in all that effort (probably for free) and hear criticism. That having been said, I cringe every time criticism is met with resistance, frustration, or defensiveness. Criticism is solid gold - all of it. It is a wake-up call to how our community is perceived from the outside. The truth doesn't matter! It's all about perception. I think it would be far more valuable to pull in as much criticism as possible than to explain it away point by point. Let's give critics water and sunlight to flourish on our mailing lists and smack us awake, rather than throw up their hands and move silently to a different language/community. Of course, after the "thank you", relevant info like "such and such has been fixed" or "an engineer would really help move things along here" would be great, resting on a foundation of acknowledgement and gratitude that someone took the time to reach out instead of disappearing or gossiping, providing a service to the community. Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-hosting-tp3384077p3407992.html Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

March 26, 2011