- Esug-list - lists.esug.org

Re: [Esug-list] Few thoughts about Google Summer of Code

by Andres Valloud

> You are totally right ... i have the same problem when i meet > developers from other languages. It's very difficult to change the > mind of people. I have no real answer except continue do some cool > stuff and make more noise. I betcha this is a two way street. What would we see in a Smalltalker from the point of view of, say, C? Would we think we can change the Smalltalker's mind? I remember Stephane and others commenting several times that appearance is an issue, and that we need a nicer looking UI. Is this really the main selling factor these days, or does that apply mostly to students (I phrase it this way because I remember Stef making the comment specifically with respect to students)? Andres.

Oct. 29, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] Few thoughts about Google Summer of Code

by Serge Stinckwich

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com> wrote: > … and observations …and questions … mostly inspired by GSoC Mentor Summit > > Mentor Summit was a great event! I didn't expect it to be THIS :) Very > pleasant …and very hard for me: so many people, language and culture shock > :) Great experience for me personally. Thank ESUG for choosing and sending > me there. > Bad news: Smalltalk is not popular. Well, it's not that new actually, we > know it. But I didn't manage to fix it :) Seriously: actually, it looks like > everybody knows Smalltalk (they know it existed I mean; few knows it still > exists), but it is treated like a black and white movie. People say "wow! > it's cool" and go to see Avatar. :( So developers don't take Smalltalk > seriously. We (Smalltalkers) know it's a mistake. But we have to show that > for others. And I found myself unable to do that there. I found language > and, more likely, culture barrier is too big to overcome. I didn't manage to > set up a two-way communication with others. So I listened mostly. > And I've heard many interesting ideas… apparently, organizational ideas > mostly. I need some time to process them. So, for now I'll just outline some > directions… Hi Dennis, thank you for you nice report ! You are totally right ... i have the same problem when i meet developers from other languages. It's very difficult to change the mind of people. I have no real answer except continue do some cool stuff and make more noise. Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/

Oct. 29, 2010

Few thoughts about Google Summer of Code

by Dennis Schetinin

… and observations …and questions … mostly inspired by GSoC Mentor Summit 1. Mentor Summit was a great event! I didn't expect it to be THIS :) Very pleasant …and very hard for me: so many people, language and culture shock :) Great experience for me personally. Thank ESUG for choosing and sending me there. 2. Bad news: Smalltalk is not popular. Well, it's not that new actually, we know it. But I didn't manage to fix it :) Seriously: actually, it looks like everybody knows Smalltalk (they know it existed I mean; few knows it still exists), but it is treated like a black and white movie. People say "wow! it's cool" and go to see Avatar. :( So developers don't take Smalltalk seriously. We (Smalltalkers) know it's a mistake. But we have to show that for others. And I found myself unable to do that there. I found language and, more likely, culture barrier is too big to overcome. I didn't manage to set up a two-way communication with others. So I listened mostly. 3. And I've heard many interesting ideas… apparently, organizational ideas mostly. I need some time to process them. So, for now I'll just outline some directions… 4. Did we summarize our GSoC results? I thought I've missed them, but apparently we didn't do it. At least I found only this page http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code-2010-esug/downloads/list. I didn't care much before, but now I think it is very important to look closer at the projects we did within GSoC, understand where we succeeded; where we failed; did we benefit and could we get more; make some plans for the future... etc. 5. I think we should pay more attention to GSoC. It is very important for our small society. Of course, we can't be sure smalltalkers will be invited again next year. (One of the things I tried to understand at summit but still I don't: how does Google select mentor organizations?) But this work will be very helpful, useful, advantageous… what ever. 6. We should be more serious about monitoring and controlling our projects. Since money are involved here, we have a right to. That's money from Google, but still. I think it should be a bit different from the way free projects are evolved within Smalltalk society. Since we have such opportunity we have to benefit as much as we can. 7. Smalltalk gives me competitive advantages. For that matter I don't want to :) but now I understand even better: we have to promote Smalltalk. I know everybody knows that, but I still want to state it once again. And promoting is not only about advertising and praising. We should be more open. We should find a way to start some cooperative projects with other societies/languages. I don't know how to do it. And it's extremely hard for me as I believe in Smalltalk superiority :) But still we have if we don't want Smalltalk to die. In general, it looks like making Smalltalk more open should be our priority, and this is one of the few ways to enhance prestige of Smalltalk among developers. -- Dennis Schetinin

Oct. 29, 2010

Few thoughts about Google Summer of Code

by Dennis Schetinin

… and observations …and questions … mostly inspired by GSoC Mentor Summit 1. Mentor Summit was a great event! I didn't expect it to be THIS :) Very pleasant …and very hard for me: so many people, language and culture shock :) Great experience for me personally. Thank ESUG for choosing and sending me there. 2. Bad news: Smalltalk is not popular. Well, it's not that new actually, we know it. But I didn't manage to fix it :) Seriously: actually, it looks like everybody knows Smalltalk (they know it existed I mean; few knows it still exists), but it is treated like a black and white movie. People say "wow! it's cool" and go to see Avatar. :( So developers don't take Smalltalk seriously. We (Smalltalkers) know it's a mistake. But we have to show that for others. And I found myself unable to do that there. I found language and, more likely, culture barrier is too big to overcome. I didn't manage to set up a two-way communication with others. So I listened mostly. 3. And I've heard many interesting ideas… apparently, organizational ideas mostly. I need some time to process them. So, for now I'll just outline some directions… 4. Did we summarize our GSoC results? I thought I've missed them, but apparently we didn't do it. At least I found only this page http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code-2010-esug/downloads/list. I didn't care much before, but now I think it is very important to look closer at the projects we did within GSoC, understand where we succeeded; where we failed; did we benefit and could we get more; make some plans for the future... etc. 5. I think we should pay more attention to GSoC. It is very important for our small society. Of course, we can't be sure smalltalkers will be invited again next year. (One of the things I tried to understand at summit but still I don't: how does Google select mentor organizations?) But this work will be very helpful, useful, advantageous… what ever. 6. We should be more serious about monitoring and controlling our projects. Since money are involved here, we have a right to. That's money from Google, but still. I think it should be a bit different from the way free projects are evolved within Smalltalk society. Since we have such opportunity we have to benefit as much as we can. 7. Smalltalk gives me competitive advantages. For that matter I don't want to :) but now I understand even better: we have to promote Smalltalk. I know everybody knows that, but I still want to state it once again. And promoting is not only about advertising and praising. We should be more open. We should find a way to start some cooperative projects with other societies/languages. I don't know how to do it. And it's extremely hard for me as I believe in Smalltalk superiority :) But still we have if we don't want Smalltalk to die. In general, it looks like making Smalltalk more open should be our priority, and this is one of the few ways to enhance prestige of Smalltalk among developers. -- Dennis Schetinin

Oct. 29, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk is cool on Nabble :)

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Excellent Geert. Thank you very much for this. 2010/10/27 Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> > Wow, congatulations Geert for fruits of all your effort putting all > Smalltalkers together on Nabble and on http://www.world.st! > > Best regards > Janko > > On 27. 10. 2010 16:12, Geert Claes wrote: > > > > http://forum.world.st/file/n3015547/SmalltalkIsCoolOnNabble.png > > -- > Janko Mivšek > Svetovalec za informatiko > Eranova d.o.o. > Ljubljana, Slovenija > www.eranova.si > tel: 01 514 22 55 > faks: 01 514 22 56 > gsm: 031 674 565 > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >

Oct. 28, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] All known ESUG Slides on Slideshare

by Tudor Girba

Thanks for all the effort, Marcus! Cheers, Doru On 27 Oct 2010, at 17:56, Philippe Marschall wrote: > 2010/10/27 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: >> Hello, >> >> All known ESUG Slides (all 254) are now on SlideShare: >> >> http://www.slideshare.net/esug/slideshows >> >> or as pdf in the ESUG Archive: >> >> http://esug.org/data/ > > Thanks. > > Cheers > Philippe > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org -- www.tudorgirba.com "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?"

Oct. 28, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] All known ESUG Slides on Slideshare

by Philippe Marschall

2010/10/27 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: > Hello, > > All known ESUG Slides (all 254) are now on SlideShare: > > http://www.slideshare.net/esug/slideshows > > or as pdf in the ESUG Archive: > > http://esug.org/data/ Thanks. Cheers Philippe

Oct. 27, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk is cool on Nabble :)

by Janko Mivšek

Wow, congatulations Geert for fruits of all your effort putting all Smalltalkers together on Nabble and on http://www.world.st! Best regards Janko On 27. 10. 2010 16:12, Geert Claes wrote: > > http://forum.world.st/file/n3015547/SmalltalkIsCoolOnNabble.png -- Janko Mivšek Svetovalec za informatiko Eranova d.o.o. Ljubljana, Slovenija www.eranova.si tel: 01 514 22 55 faks: 01 514 22 56 gsm: 031 674 565

Oct. 27, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] All known ESUG Slides on Slideshare

by Reza Razavi

Hi Marcus, My IWST'2010 presentation entitled "A Method for Reflective Web Applications" figures currently in your "Missing.txt" at: http://esug.org/data/ESUG2010/ It is actually available from the workshop webpage at: <http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2010/International%20Workshop%20o…>http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2010/International%20Workshop%20o… If you prefer it in an alternative format, please let me know. Regards, Reza Razavi At 16:25 27/10/2010, Marcus Denker wrote: >Hello, > >All known ESUG Slides (all 254) are now on SlideShare: > > http://www.slideshare.net/esug/slideshows > >or as pdf in the ESUG Archive: > > http://esug.org/data/ > >Up to 2000, we do not have many slides... so if somone has slides >especially from early years, >please send them. > > Marcus > > >-- >Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de >INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > >_______________________________________________ >Esug-list mailing list >Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

Oct. 27, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] All known ESUG Slides on Slideshare

by Geert Claes

Marcus Denker-4 wrote: > > All known ESUG Slides (all 254) are now on SlideShare: > > http://www.slideshare.net/esug/slideshows > > Cool, I am in the process of adding presentations for Smalltalk OOP eductaion on SlideShare too to add them to world.st. WIP: http://www.slideshare.net/SmalltalkWorld/presentations Still trying to get some structure around the large number of slides and you have just made this even harder :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/All-known-ESUG-Slides-on-Slideshare-tp3015567p3015584… Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Oct. 27, 2010