- Esug-list - lists.esug.org

Success story: YesPlan.be

by Geert Claes

Smalltalk-based event planning software: http://www.yesplan.be www.yesplan.be -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Success-story-YesPlan-be-tp3443937p3443937.html Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 12, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Esug'10 videos down?

by James Robertson

I have fallen behind in posting those; I will get back to preparing and posting the content this week. Sorry bout the delay! meanwhile, while I won't have any video from StS 11, I will have audio for a large part of the conference coming in my podcast stream. On Apr 10, 2011, at 2:24 PM, Bernat Romagosa wrote: > Hi guys, > > http://esug2010.objectfusion.fr/ is 404'd, is there somewhere else one can find all videos from ESUG 2010? At James Robertson's site and vimeo there are some missing. > > Thanks! > > Bernat Romagosa. > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org James Robertson http://www.jarober.com jarober(a)gmail.com

April 10, 2011

Fwd: [Seaside] Should I become a Seasider? (spreading smalltalk)

by Dale Henrichs

For those who don't subscribe to the Seaside mailing list, read Pat's response at the bottom of the message ... Pat is a well-known and respected ruby on rails developer. He earns his living in ruby, but chooses Smalltalk to start his own business ... Pat isn't the first rubyist to find Smalltalk a better and more productive environment for doing development and he won't be the last... Dale Begin forwarded message: From: Pat Maddox <patmaddox(a)me.com<mailto:patmaddox@me.com>> Date: April 9, 2011 9:06:02 PM PDT To: Seaside - general discussion <seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org<mailto:seaside@lists.squeakfoundation.org>> Subject: Re: [Seaside] Should I become a Seasider? Reply-To: Seaside - general discussion <seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org<mailto:seaside@lists.squeakfoundation.org>> On Apr 8, 2011, at 2:53 PM, Ralph Boland wrote: This post is about making a living as a web developer using Seaside. I am an unemployed software developer in Calgary (1,000,000 people), Alberta, Canada. I have used Squeak for years but I have found no Smalltalk work in Calgary and in fact know of only one small company in Calgary that uses Smalltalk. I know very little about Seaside. My impression is that websites developed using Seaside are somewhat slower than with other web development tools and that Seaside uses more memory (I assume on the server side) than other web development tools. Nevertheless there are web developers using Seaside successfully. Are these impressions correct? What I am wondering is should I learn Seaside and then attempt to sell my web development services in Calgary? My impression is that: 1) No one in Calgary has ever heard of Seaside so selling my services would be difficult. 2) Since I should be able to develop web sites faster using Seaside I should be able to offer my services at a discount and hopefully be able to find business that way. But since no one but myself (at least locally) would be able to maintain the web sites, potential customers are going to be very shy. Are these impressions correct? Lets assume I decide to become a web developer (something I know almost nothing about) using Seaside as my competitive edge. To my knowledge I would be the only Seaside web developer in Calgary. 1) How long (starting basically from scratch) is it going to take before I am competent; or at least competent enough to seek clients? Assume I am a competent Squeak developer. 2) Which version(s) of Smalltalk should I use? I know Squeak and have used Visualworks in the distant past. 3) How screwed will my clients be if my ticker stops unexpectedly. Can Seaside developers from outside Calgary pick up the slack for my hypothetical clients? 4) Is there any areas within the web development would that I should concentrate on or avoid? 5) Is there any additional software/hardware that I would need other than my home computer (running Ubuntu) and Squeak/Seaside? My resources for investments is very limited. Are there other questions that I should have asked? Starting a business is generally a tough deal so please don't butter me up with glowing reviews of Seaside. My suggestion is to learn Seaside and use it to build side projects of your own. You've probably got some ideas, and Seaside is the way to go there. The IDE (Pharo) + components + continuations combine to blow everything else out of the water. I say this as a pretty sharp Rails developer - nothing even comes close to development speed in Seaside. That's a big advantage. It gives you free license to experiment with ideas. Also, because everything is smalltalk code and everything is an object, you have a much more flexible, understandable system. Right now I've got some beta users who can benefit from features that probably wouldn't be useful to anyone else...normally I'd say, "Sorry, I'm not building that," but considering that I can build a little component in less than an hour, and plug it in only for their account, it's worth it to me to do it. I haven't been doing this for long, but I'm comfortable customizing a lot more of my app for certain customers, because it's just so easy to do. I'm using Seaside to build my startup projects because it's a huge technical advantage. I earn money right now by doing contract work, and as much as I'd love to use Seaside in those gigs, I feel like that would be screwing over my clients. They're going to have a hell of a time finding someone to maintain it when I leave. Building a business of any sort is challenging enough, as you may already know and are definitely about to find out. Don't compound the headaches by throwing a niche technology like Seaside into the mix. Pat_______________________________________________ seaside mailing list seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org<mailto:seaside@lists.squeakfoundation.org> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

April 10, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Esug'10 videos down?

by Marcus Denker

On Apr 10, 2011, at 8:25 PM, Bernat Romagosa wrote: > Hi guys, > > http://esug2010.objectfusion.fr/ is 404'd, is there somewhere else one can find all videos from ESUG 2010? At James Robertson's site and vimeo there are some missing. > > Everything is in the archive: http://esug.org/data/ESUG2010/ mostly .flv raw files, I copied James' vimeo files, too. I am sure the objectfusion.fr page was omited because of the updated website... they have now an english one: http://www.objectfusion.fr/en/index.html I am sure they will restore it when the dust settles. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

April 10, 2011

Esug'10 videos down?

by Bernat Romagosa

Hi guys, http://esug2010.objectfusion.fr/ is 404'd, is there somewhere else one can find all videos from ESUG 2010? At James Robertson's site and vimeo there are some missing. Thanks! Bernat Romagosa.

April 10, 2011

'spreading smalltalk'

by Jean Marshall and Andy Berry

Hi! Here's an article I wrote 'a few weeks ago' :-) on why I chose Smalltalk: http://www.tof.co.uk/stories/page14.html Hope it's positive enough! Regards, Andy

April 9, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Spreading Smalltalk

by Sean Allen

> The "what" is probably another reason why Smalltalk is still around after > all these years. Smalltalk does provide powerful developer productivity and > did lead the way in a myriad of other areas ... which other languages and/or > IDE's have since taken on board. > Im always interested in how much people think is the language ( which is pretty similar to something like ruby ) vs. the environment is responsible for the perceived productivity boosts?

April 9, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Spreading Smalltalk

by Sean P. DeNigris

Stealing the formula Simon uses in speaking about TiVo... Would you like to take total control of your computer? Have everything from the hardware up bend to your will? Imagine if you burned your thick, incomprehensible user manuals, and could simply dive into the inner workings of your machine like exploring a beautiful cave... if fixing a bug might take 5-10 minutes of your own creativity instead of #? calls/months/emails to a vendor... if your data and your workflow really were yours... If this turns you on, then boy do we have an environment for you. Smalltalk [all the things it does]... Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Spreading-Smalltalk-tp3435227p3437231.html Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 8, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Spreading Smalltalk

by Geert Claes

Niall Ross-2 wrote: > > ... > b) point at Smalltalk's maturity > I am not sure if "Smalltalk's maturity" is the right choice of words ... simply because those people who do happen to know about Smalltalk already tend to imagine Smalltalkers to be old bearded men hanging on to their outdated language :) Niall Ross-2 wrote: > > c) point at another value of Smalltalk - exceptionally easy to learn, easy > to read. It was designed to be so from the start, and it is so. > I have to agree that the language and its syntax are easy and fast to learn ... but the typical Smalltalk IDE is probably not intuitive or inviting enough. Following Simon's theory again, those who are intrigued by the "why" and decide to explore the "how" by having a look at Smalltalk should have an instant wow-factor feeling ... unfortunately this wow-factor is hidden away further down in the "what" -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Spreading-Smalltalk-tp3435227p3436449.html Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 8, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Spreading Smalltalk

by Niall Ross

Dear Sean, Geert et al, my first attempt. 1) Why: For coders, it's fun; Smalltalk is like a drug that you get addictd to. And why is that? It's because Smalltalk is productive and forgiving; productive _because_ it is forgiving. - Statically-typed languages say: assume you are clever. This is an IDE for coders who are clever enought to be right first time. - Smalltalk says: assume you have a lot to learn. This is an IDE for coders who are often wrong first time around. So, why? Because you will succeed in the real world, where you and your colleagues always have a lot to learn about every new task, not only in the imaginary world where flawless geeks grasp their work in a flash. 2) How: see my Value of Smalltalk talk in http://www.esug.org/data/ReportsFromNiallRoss/CSUGFrankfurtReport.pdf In brief: - The basic rule about optimisation - Do it later! - Static-typing: a gigantic, constraining, up-front optimisation 3) What: see my lists at the start of the ESUG 2011 conference page or on the poster (Thought: are these therefore too focussed on the what, not the why and how? I will review. Opinions welcome.) The above is in relation to mainstream languages. If I were discussing Smalltalk with a Rubyist I would a) be more respectiful of their language b) point at Smalltalk's maturity c) point at another value of Smalltalk - exceptionally easy to learn, easy to read. It was designed to be so from the start, and it is so. That's a why in relation to other dynamic languages. An aspect of the how is described in my old pages http://www.desk.org:8080/CampSmalltalk/new%20code%20syntax Yours faithfully Niall Ross Geert Claes wrote: >Hi Sean, I liked Simon's talk too. So following Simon's theory and start >with the "why", then "how" followed by "what": > >Why: Why does Smalltalk (still) exist, what does the Smalltalk community >believe in and probably most importantly why should anyone care? >How: How does Smalltalk do what it does, how is it designed, is it usable, >intuitive, powerful ...? >What: What does Smalltalk do, following Sean's examples; provide developer >productivity, platform independence ... > >Looking at the above I really have a feeling that Smalltalk's "Why" already >is - and always has been - very strong. > >The "what" is probably another reason why Smalltalk is still around after >all these years. Smalltalk does provide powerful developer productivity and >did lead the way in a myriad of other areas ... which other languages and/or >IDE's have since taken on board. > >The "how" is where Smalltalk's Achilles' heel is. Recent success stories >did create a resurgence of interest in Smalltalk as it did wonders for >Smalltalk's perceived usefulness. Smalltalk still needs to focus more on >the "how" in order not to lose those all important opinion leaders and early >adopters that are fascinated by the "why" but have a gut feeling and feel >like given the "perceived ease-of-use" Smalltalk may not be exactly what >they are after. Find the right recipe to improve the "how", the design, >look-and-feel and usability and these early adopters will stay and Smalltalk >will cross the chasm and influence the early majority :) > >-- >View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Spreading-Smalltalk-tp3435227p3435954.html >Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >_______________________________________________ >Esug-list mailing list >Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > >______________________________________________________________________ >This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. >For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email >______________________________________________________________________ > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

April 8, 2011