- Esug-list - lists.esug.org

Re: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium

by Reza Razavi

At 18:15 06/07/2012, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >All the code we push into Pharo has to be MIT. That's fine. But, which entity can decide legally about the licensing policy? Is that the Pharo Community or any other legal entity investing in Pharo? >The fact that INRIA pays my salary doesn't change that at all. If this is explicitly written in your work contract, i.e. legally recognized by their lawyers, that's fine. Otherwise, I would ask. Regards, Reza

July 6, 2012

Re: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium

by Dave Mason

On 2012-Jul-6, at 10:48 , Thorsten Seitz wrote: > Am 06.07.2012 um 16:36 schrieb James Robertson: > >> Personally, I'd like to thank the ESUG board in general, and Stef in particular, for all of the work they put into promoting Smalltalk. I have a pretty good idea as to how thankless a job that often is, and I for one appreciate all of their efforts! > > Well said and I wholeheartedly agree! Me too! ../Dave

July 6, 2012

Re: [Esug-list] Fwd: ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium

by Igor Stasenko

On 6 July 2012 18:45, Andreas Raab <Andreas.Raab(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 15:57:28 +0200 > Von: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > An: ESUG Mailing list <esug-list(a)lists.esug.org> > Betreff: [Esug-list] Fwd: ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium > > Let's make it clear.. > > A project X, which is a smalltalk-based project bootstrapping a consortium > and > inviting all organizations/individuals who want to participate. > > Question 1: what is a logical reaction from ESUG should be, which > mission is to support and popularize smalltalk? > > > My understanding of the situation is that the question isn't "if", the > question is "how". I haven't seen anyone saying anything about ESUG not > supporting Pharo. The question that was asked is: "Should ESUG join the > Pharo consortium and pay a perpetual fee of EUR XXXX per year"? > To my thinking ESUG should participate at bootstrapping stage (which happens right now) to help giving it enough momentum. And this is right and absolutely in spirit of ESUG mission. Sponsoring consortium by ESUG on a perpetual basis, makes little sense, as to me, because if we figure that it doesn't flies, no help from ESUG alone could make it fly.. and spending money on it would be just a waste. I don't know, of course, what ESUG board members thinking about it.. it is just my guess. > Question 2: if you replace X with 'Pharo', how this changing the situation? > > > Not at all. It's still about the "how", not the "if". > > Cheers, > - Andreas > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

July 6, 2012

Re: [Esug-list] Fwd: ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium

by Andreas Raab

> -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 15:57:28 +0200 > Von: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > An: ESUG Mailing list <esug-list(a)lists.esug.org> > Betreff: [Esug-list] Fwd: ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium > > Let's make it clear.. > > A project X, which is a smalltalk-based project bootstrapping a > consortium and > inviting all organizations/individuals who want to participate. > > Question 1: what is a logical reaction from ESUG should be, which > mission is to support and popularize smalltalk? My understanding of the situation is that the question isn't "if", the question is "how". I haven't seen anyone saying anything about ESUG not supporting Pharo. The question that was asked is: "Should ESUG join the Pharo consortium and pay a perpetual fee of EUR XXXX per year"? > Question 2: if you replace X with 'Pharo', how this changing the > situation? Not at all. It's still about the "how", not the "if". Cheers, - Andreas > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >

July 6, 2012

Re: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium

by Esteban Lorenzano

That has been addressed long time ago (and is no matter of ESUG, but Pharo). Pharo is MIT. All the code we push into Pharo has to be MIT. The fact that INRIA pays my salary doesn't change that at all. Esteban On Jul 6, 2012, at 5:58 PM, Reza Razavi wrote: > At 15:39 06/07/2012, Niall Ross wrote: >> what legal discussions have already taken place. > > Dear Niall, > > Thanks for your insightful comments! > > Issues related to Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) are in general complex. They are raised when institutions invest in developing a piece of software, and depend on their business model. They typically determine who is legally authorized to make decisions, e.g. about licensing policy, and exploit the product(s), etc. In these specific case, it would also involve deciding whether or not to accept such donations. > > If these questions have been discussed and the Community is aware of the underlying policies (I personally didn't followed these topics in details), that's fine. Otherwise, IMHO, it would make sense to address them as soon as possible in a systematic way. > > Cheers, > Reza > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

July 6, 2012

Re: [Esug-list] lectures in the temple of the type systems: university of Turino

by Nowak, Helge

Dear Stef, "... it was fun". It would be nice if you could share the fun. Do you have a video, podcast, presentation? Or could you write something up that would help us arguing with other priests of "temples of type systems" when promoting Smalltalk? TIA Helge -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: esug-list-bounces(a)lists.esug.org [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org] Im Auftrag von Stéphane Ducasse Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Juli 2012 21:30 An: Damien Cassou Cc: ESUG Mailing list Betreff: Re: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium I propose that we/you talk at ESUG about this point. BTW here are the old list of actions done by ESUG. http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Promotion/PastActions We should refresh it because we have done much more since then. Like lectures in the temple of the type systems: university of Turino ;D - it was fun. Stef On Jul 4, 2012, at 5:01 PM, Damien Cassou wrote: > The ESUG board currently considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium > (see http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2012-June/066881.html) > We believe that Pharo is important for the Smalltalk ecosystem. > > Note that ESUG is promoting Smalltalk in general and this action is in > the same vein as previous actions such as sponsoring local Smalltalk > groups (FAST, Catalan, Russian, ...), Smalltalk dialects > (SqueakFoundation, etoy), development projects (Mars, DBXTalk, DrGeo > II, SqueakVirtual Machine cleaning), and books (Seaside and GNU book). > > Before deciding, the board would like to gather feedback from the > community. We want to be clear that there is a strict distinction > between ESUG and Pharo (both consortium and association) even if some > people are involved in both. > > What do you think? > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them > popular by not having them." James Iry > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org _______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

July 6, 2012

Re: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium

by Reza Razavi

At 15:39 06/07/2012, Niall Ross wrote: >what legal discussions have already taken place. Dear Niall, Thanks for your insightful comments! Issues related to Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) are in general complex. They are raised when institutions invest in developing a piece of software, and depend on their business model. They typically determine who is legally authorized to make decisions, e.g. about licensing policy, and exploit the product(s), etc. In these specific case, it would also involve deciding whether or not to accept such donations. If these questions have been discussed and the Community is aware of the underlying policies (I personally didn't followed these topics in details), that's fine. Otherwise, IMHO, it would make sense to address them as soon as possible in a systematic way. Cheers, Reza

July 6, 2012

Re: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium

by Thorsten Seitz

Am 06.07.2012 um 16:36 schrieb James Robertson: > Personally, I'd like to thank the ESUG board in general, and Stef in particular, for all of the work they put into promoting Smalltalk. I have a pretty good idea as to how thankless a job that often is, and I for one appreciate all of their efforts! Well said and I wholeheartedly agree! -Thorsten

July 6, 2012

Re: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium

by James Robertson

Personally, I'd like to thank the ESUG board in general, and Stef in particular, for all of the work they put into promoting Smalltalk. I have a pretty good idea as to how thankless a job that often is, and I for one appreciate all of their efforts! On Jul 5, 2012, at 2:31 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > Thanks a lot steven for pissing on us. > This is fun nobody ever told us anything when the complete board was programming in VW. And nobody told us anything when the complete board > was using Squeak. Strange no. And ESUG even manage money for the squeak foundation. > > But you are welcome. Do you not worry, you are damaging ESUG and this is great. You are an hero. > > Keep going. Thanks for all these positive energy. > > Stef > > > On Jul 5, 2012, at 10:35 AM, Steven Kelly wrote: > >> Since I didn't really see an answer to Michael Haupt's question, about what is the main Smalltalk dialect of the board members, I did a quick Google on their home pages, looking there or on CVs for which Smalltalk is mentioned. Obviously this is not an accurate method, and I'd much rather the board members answered the question - please, please don't get annoyed because Google says this, just tell us what the real situation is. But for what little it's worth: >> >>> here are the members of the ESUG's board: >>> >>> President: Stéphane Ducasse <- Pharo >>> Treasurer: Luc Fabresse <- Pharo >>> Damien Cassou <- Pharo >>> Jordi Delgado <- Pharo >>> Marcus Denker <- Squeak, Pharo >>> Alain Plantec <- Pharo >>> Serge Stinckwich <- none on home page, adding various Smalltalk names to the search terms shows several, with Pharo giving most hits >> >> If that's the impression a casual web browse gives, then even if it is totally and utterly incorrect, hopefully the board can understand why it seems reasonable to members who don't know all the details to mention potential conflicts of interest. >> >> So, what does it mean that if so many on the board have a Pharo link? First, it's brilliant that these people are active in doing something for a Smalltalk, as well as their great work in ESUG. Second, it's brilliant that Pharo people are active in wider promotion of Smalltalk in general. And third, it's going to be rather difficult to have a sensible vote on the board, and discussions on the members email list may be a little tense :). >> >> No worries from me, though. I think it's great what ESUG are doing, and great what Pharo is doing. Personally I'd rather not have ESUG sponsor Pharo, but that's just one person's opinion, and hopefully nobody gets upset about it. >> >> Go Smalltalk! >> Steve >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org James Robertson http://www.jarober.com jarober(a)gmail.com

July 6, 2012

Re: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium

by Niall Ross

Dear Andreas, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: >sorry andreas but apparently you do not know what is to take the risk to organize a conference and get broken >Now it happens with ESUG certain years and > > >>>I would agree with you if ESUG was spending 100% of the money it has. >>> I agree with Stephane. Over a period of many years, I believe ESUG does spend "all the money it has", in that any money ESUG gets is sooner or later spent on Smalltalk. In a single year, ESUG must budget to ensure the conference succeeds. Last year, I got a special insight ( :-) ) into how that means estimating and hoping. Especially at this time of year, there is both hope and some stress for those who run ESUG. For the good of Smalltalk, failure is not an option! That means the year's budget plan must ensure it is not - and at the same time, deliver great value to all who come to ESUG. So I believe in a given year, ESUG should not plan to spend 100% of all the money it hopes to raise that year. Yours faithfully Niall Ross ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com ______________________________________________________________________

July 6, 2012