- Esug-list - lists.esug.org

Re: [Esug-list] About GSOC mess: Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name

by Nicolas Petton

Guys, could you please stop this debate and focus all this energy on proposing good topics instead? Try to actually accomplish something? Is this what we want to show as a community? Hasn't this discussion done enough harm already to the image we show to the world? Come on... Let's try to be a better community together, not a worse one. Janko Mivšek writes: > Dear Smalltalkers, > > Stef is overreacting as always, going off-topic and don't want to see > the real reasons behind this proposal. Which is to make GSoC attractive > to all Smalltalkers by removing the last doubt about the any bias > towards any Smalltalk or group. That's why I propose to go more > independent under new name 'Smalltalk', besides a clearly better > visibility of such name of course. > > I invite you to follow the debate on GSoC mentor list: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors > > All mentors with voting rights on past GSoCs please join back to this > mailing list and help with debate: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/join > > Best regards > Janko > > > > > Dne 08. 02. 2014 10:50, piše Stéphane Ducasse: >> Dear community >> >> On the smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com >> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors@googlegroups.com> janko is kind of >> declaring that ESUG was not doing a good job managing >> GSOC. We feel insulted and we are quite concerned by that fact. >> Personally if students would not be involved I would vote that ESUG does >> not have anything to do with GSOC. Because it costs us money, time and >> stress. Note in addition that we never interferred with the choice or >> anything. >> >> I will ask the ESUG board to decide because we cannot do the job, spend >> time, money and be treated like that. >> Sorry! We are sad but this is like that. >> >> Then we do not like the kind of mails that Janko is sending us about the >> fact that ESUG is biased towards Pharo. >> Where are the research teams and teachers? Of course: the mails of >> janko are just so nice. I let you judge. >> >> It is particularly fun since this year we (the pharo board) decided not >> to organise a Pharo conference to avoid competing with ESUG. >> >>> About motivations for my proposal: >>> >>> 1. 'Smalltalk' is more recognizable name on first spot that 'ESUG' . >>> And this matters when a student looks at around 150 GSoC organizations >>> to choose, which one to check and try. See last year list of orgs >>> <http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2013>. >>> >>> 2. ESUG is currently regarded by many as too biased towards Pharo. Let >>> we avoid starting debating is this is true or not. Making our org more >>> independent will I hope remove any remaining doubt about that. >> >> >> I feel shocked and insulted but I take it easy, having success make you >> as easy target for jaleous people. This is strange that >> some people would prefer to have a non existing/moving open-source >> smalltalk. May be the losers theory. >> >> I added the answer of marcus below (because marcus usually is much >> calmer than me) so that Janko succeeded to get marcus reacting like that >> is a nice proof in itself. >> >> Seriously Smalltalk is in a so good shape in presence of lua, >> Javascript, ruby and python, clojure that we should fight. >> >> Excellent idea thank for this nice initiative. >> >> Stef >> >> >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> *From: *Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek(a)gmail.com >>> <mailto:janko.mivsek@gmail.com>> >>> *Subject: **[gsoc-mentors] Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name* >>> *Date: *8 Feb 2014 08:46:18 GMT+1 >>> *To: %2Asmalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors@googlegroups.com> >>> *Reply-To: %2Asmalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors@googlegroups.com> >>> >>> Dear mentors, >>> >>> I propose that we run this year GSoC simply under 'Smalltalk' name. >>> Mentoring organization will be us mentors of past and current GSoCs, >>> as the name 'mentoring organization' implies anyway. Such organization >>> therefore doesn't need to be some kind of legal entity. >>> >>> Because I need to open a new website and we have only one week to >>> deadline, decision needs to be done soon. >>> >>> Best regards >>> Janko >>> >>> --- >>> Janko Mivšek >>> Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors%2Bunsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> >> Of course you need it: I filled out quite some paperwork for Google. >> ESUG is an official Google supplier, for that I filled american tax >> forms and so on. >> >> Without an organisation that will be very difficult. How do yu receive >> money for the flight if someone goes to the meeting in the fall? >> >> One of the reasons why the Smalltalk GSOC was accepted was I think that >> it was the same organisation that is already in the books of google. >> >> And I do not see why to change that: ESUG did a good job, we even lost >> money (that is, we spend more money on additional Summer of Code slots >> than got in with the money from google). >> We payed all additional expenses of the people going to the Summit: >> Google only pays the flight and hotel. Everyhting else not (e.g. going >> from the airpot >> to the hotel). >> >> >> What we need to discuss this year is if additional slots make sense: We >> had last year the fast that >> a) it was very expensive for ESUG >> b) even then, we got complaints that it was unfair that we did not pay >> the same as google >> c) that it was very extremely unfair that the student could not put >> “Google Summer of Code” on the CV. >> >> The last is the Killer: money from ESUG is just money. GSoC is more. So >> we ask if it is really worth to spend the money >> if even the students are not happy about it. >> >> And if your motivation behind is that this way you think it will be >> easier to enable “Quotas” for different Smalltalks: I think this is a >> dumb idea. >> >> Yes, Pharo is very active. So could every other Smalltalk be, too. They >> just need to do it. If they do not, it is not my duty to limit >> my activity for “Fairness”. Limiting the activity level of those who do >> to be more “in line” with what those do who do nothing is just >> *insane*. It’s a description of death itself. >> >> Marcus >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >> -- Nicolas Petton http://nicolas-petton.fr

Feb. 8, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] About GSOC mess: Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name

by Bruce Badger

It's remarkable that for such a small community, centred around an amazing language, we end up being so balkanised (with apologies to the Balkans for using that term). I really don't think setting up a yet another new grouping will help. Unless we we like the balkanisation (I don't) we should work to identify and group around some centre of gravity. Are we really a community worthy of the term 'community'? I do hope we are. On 8 February 2014 10:33, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > the only thing that I can say is that you cannot say “ESUG is biased” and > not wait a response… if you make accusations you will have the concerned > people reacting. > Imagine I say in list “Janko is a bad person, but lets avoid that > discussion”… obviously that will not happen (and please notice, I’m not > saying you are, I’m just using it as an example of a bad choice of > argument). > > Esteban > > On 08 Feb 2014, at 11:25, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: > > > Dear Smalltalkers, > > > > Stef is overreacting as always, going off-topic and don't want to see > > the real reasons behind this proposal. Which is to make GSoC attractive > > to all Smalltalkers by removing the last doubt about the any bias > > towards any Smalltalk or group. That's why I propose to go more > > independent under new name 'Smalltalk', besides a clearly better > > visibility of such name of course. > > > > I invite you to follow the debate on GSoC mentor list: > > > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors > > > > All mentors with voting rights on past GSoCs please join back to this > > mailing list and help with debate: > > > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/join > > > > Best regards > > Janko > > > > > > > > > > Dne 08. 02. 2014 10:50, piše Stéphane Ducasse: > >> Dear community > >> > >> On the smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com > >> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors@googlegroups.com> janko is kind of > >> declaring that ESUG was not doing a good job managing > >> GSOC. We feel insulted and we are quite concerned by that fact. > >> Personally if students would not be involved I would vote that ESUG does > >> not have anything to do with GSOC. Because it costs us money, time and > >> stress. Note in addition that we never interferred with the choice or > >> anything. > >> > >> I will ask the ESUG board to decide because we cannot do the job, spend > >> time, money and be treated like that. > >> Sorry! We are sad but this is like that. > >> > >> Then we do not like the kind of mails that Janko is sending us about the > >> fact that ESUG is biased towards Pharo. > >> Where are the research teams and teachers? Of course: the mails of > >> janko are just so nice. I let you judge. > >> > >> It is particularly fun since this year we (the pharo board) decided not > >> to organise a Pharo conference to avoid competing with ESUG. > >> > >>> About motivations for my proposal: > >>> > >>> 1. 'Smalltalk' is more recognizable name on first spot that 'ESUG' . > >>> And this matters when a student looks at around 150 GSoC organizations > >>> to choose, which one to check and try. See last year list of orgs > >>> <http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2013>. > >>> > >>> 2. ESUG is currently regarded by many as too biased towards Pharo. Let > >>> we avoid starting debating is this is true or not. Making our org more > >>> independent will I hope remove any remaining doubt about that. > >> > >> > >> I feel shocked and insulted but I take it easy, having success make you > >> as easy target for jaleous people. This is strange that > >> some people would prefer to have a non existing/moving open-source > >> smalltalk. May be the losers theory. > >> > >> I added the answer of marcus below (because marcus usually is much > >> calmer than me) so that Janko succeeded to get marcus reacting like that > >> is a nice proof in itself. > >> > >> Seriously Smalltalk is in a so good shape in presence of lua, > >> Javascript, ruby and python, clojure that we should fight. > >> > >> Excellent idea thank for this nice initiative. > >> > >> Stef > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Begin forwarded message: > >> > >>> *From: *Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek(a)gmail.com > >>> <mailto:janko.mivsek@gmail.com>> > >>> *Subject: **[gsoc-mentors] Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name* > >>> *Date: *8 Feb 2014 08:46:18 GMT+1 > >>> *To: %2Asmalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com > >>> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors@googlegroups.com> > >>> *Reply-To: %2Asmalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com > >>> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors@googlegroups.com> > >>> > >>> Dear mentors, > >>> > >>> I propose that we run this year GSoC simply under 'Smalltalk' name. > >>> Mentoring organization will be us mentors of past and current GSoCs, > >>> as the name 'mentoring organization' implies anyway. Such organization > >>> therefore doesn't need to be some kind of legal entity. > >>> > >>> Because I need to open a new website and we have only one week to > >>> deadline, decision needs to be done soon. > >>> > >>> Best regards > >>> Janko > >>> > >>> --- > >>> Janko Mivšek > >>> Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > >>> > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>> Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>> an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors%2Bunsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com > >>> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. > >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > >> > >> > >> > >> Of course you need it: I filled out quite some paperwork for Google. > >> ESUG is an official Google supplier, for that I filled american tax > >> forms and so on. > >> > >> Without an organisation that will be very difficult. How do yu receive > >> money for the flight if someone goes to the meeting in the fall? > >> > >> One of the reasons why the Smalltalk GSOC was accepted was I think that > >> it was the same organisation that is already in the books of google. > >> > >> And I do not see why to change that: ESUG did a good job, we even lost > >> money (that is, we spend more money on additional Summer of Code slots > >> than got in with the money from google). > >> We payed all additional expenses of the people going to the Summit: > >> Google only pays the flight and hotel. Everyhting else not (e.g. going > >> from the airpot > >> to the hotel). > >> > >> > >> What we need to discuss this year is if additional slots make sense: We > >> had last year the fast that > >> a) it was very expensive for ESUG > >> b) even then, we got complaints that it was unfair that we did not pay > >> the same as google > >> c) that it was very extremely unfair that the student could not put > >> “Google Summer of Code” on the CV. > >> > >> The last is the Killer: money from ESUG is just money. GSoC is more. So > >> we ask if it is really worth to spend the money > >> if even the students are not happy about it. > >> > >> And if your motivation behind is that this way you think it will be > >> easier to enable “Quotas” for different Smalltalks: I think this is a > >> dumb idea. > >> > >> Yes, Pharo is very active. So could every other Smalltalk be, too. They > >> just need to do it. If they do not, it is not my duty to limit > >> my activity for “Fairness”. Limiting the activity level of those who do > >> to be more “in line” with what those do who do nothing is just > >> *insane*. It’s a description of death itself. > >> > >> Marcus > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Esug-list mailing list > >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > >> > > > > -- > > Janko Mivšek > > Aida/Web > > Smalltalk Web Application Server > > http://www.aidaweb.si > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Esug-list mailing list > > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > -- Make the most of your skills - with OpenSkills http://www.openskills.org/

Feb. 8, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] About GSOC mess: Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name

by Esteban Lorenzano

the only thing that I can say is that you cannot say “ESUG is biased” and not wait a response… if you make accusations you will have the concerned people reacting. Imagine I say in list “Janko is a bad person, but lets avoid that discussion”… obviously that will not happen (and please notice, I’m not saying you are, I’m just using it as an example of a bad choice of argument). Esteban On 08 Feb 2014, at 11:25, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: > Dear Smalltalkers, > > Stef is overreacting as always, going off-topic and don't want to see > the real reasons behind this proposal. Which is to make GSoC attractive > to all Smalltalkers by removing the last doubt about the any bias > towards any Smalltalk or group. That's why I propose to go more > independent under new name 'Smalltalk', besides a clearly better > visibility of such name of course. > > I invite you to follow the debate on GSoC mentor list: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors > > All mentors with voting rights on past GSoCs please join back to this > mailing list and help with debate: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/join > > Best regards > Janko > > > > > Dne 08. 02. 2014 10:50, piše Stéphane Ducasse: >> Dear community >> >> On the smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com >> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors@googlegroups.com> janko is kind of >> declaring that ESUG was not doing a good job managing >> GSOC. We feel insulted and we are quite concerned by that fact. >> Personally if students would not be involved I would vote that ESUG does >> not have anything to do with GSOC. Because it costs us money, time and >> stress. Note in addition that we never interferred with the choice or >> anything. >> >> I will ask the ESUG board to decide because we cannot do the job, spend >> time, money and be treated like that. >> Sorry! We are sad but this is like that. >> >> Then we do not like the kind of mails that Janko is sending us about the >> fact that ESUG is biased towards Pharo. >> Where are the research teams and teachers? Of course: the mails of >> janko are just so nice. I let you judge. >> >> It is particularly fun since this year we (the pharo board) decided not >> to organise a Pharo conference to avoid competing with ESUG. >> >>> About motivations for my proposal: >>> >>> 1. 'Smalltalk' is more recognizable name on first spot that 'ESUG' . >>> And this matters when a student looks at around 150 GSoC organizations >>> to choose, which one to check and try. See last year list of orgs >>> <http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2013>. >>> >>> 2. ESUG is currently regarded by many as too biased towards Pharo. Let >>> we avoid starting debating is this is true or not. Making our org more >>> independent will I hope remove any remaining doubt about that. >> >> >> I feel shocked and insulted but I take it easy, having success make you >> as easy target for jaleous people. This is strange that >> some people would prefer to have a non existing/moving open-source >> smalltalk. May be the losers theory. >> >> I added the answer of marcus below (because marcus usually is much >> calmer than me) so that Janko succeeded to get marcus reacting like that >> is a nice proof in itself. >> >> Seriously Smalltalk is in a so good shape in presence of lua, >> Javascript, ruby and python, clojure that we should fight. >> >> Excellent idea thank for this nice initiative. >> >> Stef >> >> >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> *From: *Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek(a)gmail.com >>> <mailto:janko.mivsek@gmail.com>> >>> *Subject: **[gsoc-mentors] Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name* >>> *Date: *8 Feb 2014 08:46:18 GMT+1 >>> *To: %2Asmalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors@googlegroups.com> >>> *Reply-To: %2Asmalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors@googlegroups.com> >>> >>> Dear mentors, >>> >>> I propose that we run this year GSoC simply under 'Smalltalk' name. >>> Mentoring organization will be us mentors of past and current GSoCs, >>> as the name 'mentoring organization' implies anyway. Such organization >>> therefore doesn't need to be some kind of legal entity. >>> >>> Because I need to open a new website and we have only one week to >>> deadline, decision needs to be done soon. >>> >>> Best regards >>> Janko >>> >>> --- >>> Janko Mivšek >>> Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors%2Bunsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> >> Of course you need it: I filled out quite some paperwork for Google. >> ESUG is an official Google supplier, for that I filled american tax >> forms and so on. >> >> Without an organisation that will be very difficult. How do yu receive >> money for the flight if someone goes to the meeting in the fall? >> >> One of the reasons why the Smalltalk GSOC was accepted was I think that >> it was the same organisation that is already in the books of google. >> >> And I do not see why to change that: ESUG did a good job, we even lost >> money (that is, we spend more money on additional Summer of Code slots >> than got in with the money from google). >> We payed all additional expenses of the people going to the Summit: >> Google only pays the flight and hotel. Everyhting else not (e.g. going >> from the airpot >> to the hotel). >> >> >> What we need to discuss this year is if additional slots make sense: We >> had last year the fast that >> a) it was very expensive for ESUG >> b) even then, we got complaints that it was unfair that we did not pay >> the same as google >> c) that it was very extremely unfair that the student could not put >> “Google Summer of Code” on the CV. >> >> The last is the Killer: money from ESUG is just money. GSoC is more. So >> we ask if it is really worth to spend the money >> if even the students are not happy about it. >> >> And if your motivation behind is that this way you think it will be >> easier to enable “Quotas” for different Smalltalks: I think this is a >> dumb idea. >> >> Yes, Pharo is very active. So could every other Smalltalk be, too. They >> just need to do it. If they do not, it is not my duty to limit >> my activity for “Fairness”. Limiting the activity level of those who do >> to be more “in line” with what those do who do nothing is just >> *insane*. It’s a description of death itself. >> >> Marcus >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >> > > -- > Janko Mivšek > Aida/Web > Smalltalk Web Application Server > http://www.aidaweb.si > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

Feb. 8, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] About GSOC mess: Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name

by Janko Mivšek

Dear Smalltalkers, Stef is overreacting as always, going off-topic and don't want to see the real reasons behind this proposal. Which is to make GSoC attractive to all Smalltalkers by removing the last doubt about the any bias towards any Smalltalk or group. That's why I propose to go more independent under new name 'Smalltalk', besides a clearly better visibility of such name of course. I invite you to follow the debate on GSoC mentor list: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors All mentors with voting rights on past GSoCs please join back to this mailing list and help with debate: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/join Best regards Janko Dne 08. 02. 2014 10:50, piše Stéphane Ducasse: > Dear community > > On the smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com > <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors@googlegroups.com> janko is kind of > declaring that ESUG was not doing a good job managing > GSOC. We feel insulted and we are quite concerned by that fact. > Personally if students would not be involved I would vote that ESUG does > not have anything to do with GSOC. Because it costs us money, time and > stress. Note in addition that we never interferred with the choice or > anything. > > I will ask the ESUG board to decide because we cannot do the job, spend > time, money and be treated like that. > Sorry! We are sad but this is like that. > > Then we do not like the kind of mails that Janko is sending us about the > fact that ESUG is biased towards Pharo. > Where are the research teams and teachers? Of course: the mails of > janko are just so nice. I let you judge. > > It is particularly fun since this year we (the pharo board) decided not > to organise a Pharo conference to avoid competing with ESUG. > >> About motivations for my proposal: >> >> 1. 'Smalltalk' is more recognizable name on first spot that 'ESUG' . >> And this matters when a student looks at around 150 GSoC organizations >> to choose, which one to check and try. See last year list of orgs >> <http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2013>. >> >> 2. ESUG is currently regarded by many as too biased towards Pharo. Let >> we avoid starting debating is this is true or not. Making our org more >> independent will I hope remove any remaining doubt about that. > > > I feel shocked and insulted but I take it easy, having success make you > as easy target for jaleous people. This is strange that > some people would prefer to have a non existing/moving open-source > smalltalk. May be the losers theory. > > I added the answer of marcus below (because marcus usually is much > calmer than me) so that Janko succeeded to get marcus reacting like that > is a nice proof in itself. > > Seriously Smalltalk is in a so good shape in presence of lua, > Javascript, ruby and python, clojure that we should fight. > > Excellent idea thank for this nice initiative. > > Stef > > > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> *From: *Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek(a)gmail.com >> <mailto:janko.mivsek@gmail.com>> >> *Subject: **[gsoc-mentors] Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name* >> *Date: *8 Feb 2014 08:46:18 GMT+1 >> *To: %2Asmalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com >> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors@googlegroups.com> >> *Reply-To: %2Asmalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com >> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors@googlegroups.com> >> >> Dear mentors, >> >> I propose that we run this year GSoC simply under 'Smalltalk' name. >> Mentoring organization will be us mentors of past and current GSoCs, >> as the name 'mentoring organization' implies anyway. Such organization >> therefore doesn't need to be some kind of legal entity. >> >> Because I need to open a new website and we have only one week to >> deadline, decision needs to be done soon. >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> --- >> Janko Mivšek >> Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors%2Bunsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com >> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > Of course you need it: I filled out quite some paperwork for Google. > ESUG is an official Google supplier, for that I filled american tax > forms and so on. > > Without an organisation that will be very difficult. How do yu receive > money for the flight if someone goes to the meeting in the fall? > > One of the reasons why the Smalltalk GSOC was accepted was I think that > it was the same organisation that is already in the books of google. > > And I do not see why to change that: ESUG did a good job, we even lost > money (that is, we spend more money on additional Summer of Code slots > than got in with the money from google). > We payed all additional expenses of the people going to the Summit: > Google only pays the flight and hotel. Everyhting else not (e.g. going > from the airpot > to the hotel). > > > What we need to discuss this year is if additional slots make sense: We > had last year the fast that > a) it was very expensive for ESUG > b) even then, we got complaints that it was unfair that we did not pay > the same as google > c) that it was very extremely unfair that the student could not put > “Google Summer of Code” on the CV. > > The last is the Killer: money from ESUG is just money. GSoC is more. So > we ask if it is really worth to spend the money > if even the students are not happy about it. > > And if your motivation behind is that this way you think it will be > easier to enable “Quotas” for different Smalltalks: I think this is a > dumb idea. > > Yes, Pharo is very active. So could every other Smalltalk be, too. They > just need to do it. If they do not, it is not my duty to limit > my activity for “Fairness”. Limiting the activity level of those who do > to be more “in line” with what those do who do nothing is just > *insane*. It’s a description of death itself. > > Marcus > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

Feb. 8, 2014

About GSOC mess: Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name

by Stéphane Ducasse

Dear community On the smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com janko is kind of declaring that ESUG was not doing a good job managing GSOC. We feel insulted and we are quite concerned by that fact. Personally if students would not be involved I would vote that ESUG does not have anything to do with GSOC. Because it costs us money, time and stress. Note in addition that we never interferred with the choice or anything. I will ask the ESUG board to decide because we cannot do the job, spend time, money and be treated like that. Sorry! We are sad but this is like that. Then we do not like the kind of mails that Janko is sending us about the fact that ESUG is biased towards Pharo. Where are the research teams and teachers? Of course: the mails of janko are just so nice. I let you judge. It is particularly fun since this year we (the pharo board) decided not to organise a Pharo conference to avoid competing with ESUG. > About motivations for my proposal: > > 1. 'Smalltalk' is more recognizable name on first spot that 'ESUG' . And this matters when a student looks at around 150 GSoC organizations to choose, which one to check and try. See last year list of orgs. > > 2. ESUG is currently regarded by many as too biased towards Pharo. Let we avoid starting debating is this is true or not. Making our org more independent will I hope remove any remaining doubt about that. I feel shocked and insulted but I take it easy, having success make you as easy target for jaleous people. This is strange that some people would prefer to have a non existing/moving open-source smalltalk. May be the losers theory. I added the answer of marcus below (because marcus usually is much calmer than me) so that Janko succeeded to get marcus reacting like that is a nice proof in itself. Seriously Smalltalk is in a so good shape in presence of lua, Javascript, ruby and python, clojure that we should fight. Excellent idea thank for this nice initiative. Stef Begin forwarded message: > From: Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek(a)gmail.com> > Subject: [gsoc-mentors] Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name > Date: 8 Feb 2014 08:46:18 GMT+1 > To: smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com > Reply-To: smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com > > Dear mentors, > > I propose that we run this year GSoC simply under 'Smalltalk' name. Mentoring organization will be us mentors of past and current GSoCs, as the name 'mentoring organization' implies anyway. Such organization therefore doesn't need to be some kind of legal entity. > > Because I need to open a new website and we have only one week to deadline, decision needs to be done soon. > > Best regards > Janko > > --- > Janko Mivšek > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors%2Bunsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. Of course you need it: I filled out quite some paperwork for Google. ESUG is an official Google supplier, for that I filled american tax forms and so on. Without an organisation that will be very difficult. How do yu receive money for the flight if someone goes to the meeting in the fall? One of the reasons why the Smalltalk GSOC was accepted was I think that it was the same organisation that is already in the books of google. And I do not see why to change that: ESUG did a good job, we even lost money (that is, we spend more money on additional Summer of Code slots than got in with the money from google). We payed all additional expenses of the people going to the Summit: Google only pays the flight and hotel. Everyhting else not (e.g. going from the airpot to the hotel). What we need to discuss this year is if additional slots make sense: We had last year the fast that a) it was very expensive for ESUG b) even then, we got complaints that it was unfair that we did not pay the same as google c) that it was very extremely unfair that the student could not put “Google Summer of Code” on the CV. The last is the Killer: money from ESUG is just money. GSoC is more. So we ask if it is really worth to spend the money if even the students are not happy about it. And if your motivation behind is that this way you think it will be easier to enable “Quotas” for different Smalltalks: I think this is a dumb idea. Yes, Pharo is very active. So could every other Smalltalk be, too. They just need to do it. If they do not, it is not my duty to limit my activity for “Fairness”. Limiting the activity level of those who do to be more “in line” with what those do who do nothing is just *insane*. It’s a description of death itself. Marcus

Feb. 8, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] Google Summer of Code is here, your ideas please!

by Stéphane Ducasse

Hi jano do you need help to create a web page for 2014 because I do not see it. Should we use the 2013 for checking proposed topics? Since the deadline is quite soon how can we help? Stef On 04 Feb 2014, at 11:58, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: > Dear Smalltalkers, > > Tenth GSoC is here and application deadline is earlier this year, > already next Friday! > > Time therefore for your cool project ideas on this year Smalltalk GSoC > Hurry up! > > For now just express any idea you have here on the mailing list. Later > we will together develop it to be in complete format together with two > mentors needed. To see how fully developed ideas look like please look > at 2012 ones at:http://gsoc2013.esug.org/ideas. > > Ideally (but not necessary right now) you should prepare an idea > following this template: > > ----------------------------------------------- > > Title: > > Level: (beginner, intermediate, advanced) > > Possible mentor: (can be assigned later) > > Possible second mentor: (can be assigned later) > > Description > > Technical Details > > Benefits to the Student > > Benefits to the Community > > ------------------------------------------------- > > Note also that students yourselves can propose a GSoC project. So if you > like to be a student on this year GSoC and have a nice idea, don't be > shy and propose it here! The community will listen you and guide to the > really nicely proposed project. > > For the community, start looking around for students. Think about how to > approach the universities near by you, do you know who to contact > there, etc. > > Our special website is in preparation and will be online in few days. > Official Google GSoC site is here: > > http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2014. > > Specially read carefully the FAQ: > > http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc20… > > Mentors of all past GSoCs please rejoin the mentors mailing list, where > we discuss all details about this year GSoC: > > http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors > > While students interested on GSoC please join a special Smalltalk GSoC > mailing list for you: > > http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-students > > Best regards > Janko > > -- > Janko Mivšek > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

Feb. 8, 2014

Fwd: [Pharo-users] Please help beta test Pharo 3.0 NOW !

by Stéphane Ducasse

Begin forwarded message: > From: Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> > Subject: [Pharo-users] Please help beta test Pharo 3.0 NOW ! > Date: 7 Feb 2014 12:07:17 GMT+1 > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org>, Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Reply-To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > > Dear fellow Pharoers, > > > Pharo 2.0 was released in March 2013, after which development of Pharo 3.0 started. Since December 2013 we stopped adding new features and started concentrating on fixing bugs. We plan to release Pharo 3.0 in March 2014. > > You can help: please help beta test Pharo 3.0 NOW, before it is released, not after. You can help us tremendously by doing this. Together we can improve the quality and polish for a great release. > > http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/beta-3-0 > > http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/PharoLauncher > > http://get.pharo.org > > The mailing lists are one way to give feedback, but it is even better to report problems as issues. > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/ > > > Remember, it is your Pharo. > > Thank you! > > > On behalf of the whole team, Sven > >

Feb. 7, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] Esse status

by Carla F. Griggio

There is a summary of the projects of 2012 in this link: http://gsoc2012.esug.org/esug%27s%20gsoc%202012%20projects%20showcase There is a screencast and a documentation file for Esse. Cheers! Carla On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 5:33 AM, DeNigris Sean <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > - Boundless and zoomable interfaces with Pharo. Continuation of > http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects/esse using Athens. Perhaps creating > some development tools. > > What was accomplished? Where is the code? How and where to load it? > > Thanks. > Sean > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > >

Feb. 7, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] Google Summer of Code is here, your ideas please!

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi Janko, here my proposal for this year (just one :P) Title: Quartz backend for Athens framework Level: (beginner, intermediate, advanced) Intermediate Possible mentor: (can be assigned later) Esteban Lorenzano Possible second mentor: (can be assigned later) Description Athens is a vectorial graphics library that supports different backends but now is restrained to Cairo. Also, current implementation uses NativeBoost, who at the time generates and executes dynamic code. This combination mades impossible to use the framework for iPad/iPhone applications and we have need to support them. The project then is to create a new backend for the Athens library that can be used both in macs and ipad/iphone platforms. Technical Details The student need to study the current Athens-Balloon and Athens-Cairoo implementation, and the Ballon plugin, to produce a Quartz plugin and to create the Athens extension to use it. Benefits to the Student The student will understand the plugin architecture and how it interacts with the environment, also he will have internals on native boost and vectorial libraries. Benefits to the Community The community will gain the ability of develop better applications for ipad/iphone mobile platforms. thanks, Esteban

Feb. 6, 2014

Esse status

by DeNigris Sean

- Boundless and zoomable interfaces with Pharo. Continuation of http://gsoc2012.esug.org/projects/esse using Athens. Perhaps creating some development tools. What was accomplished? Where is the code? How and where to load it? Thanks. Sean

Feb. 6, 2014