August 2014 - Esug-list - lists.esug.org

Re: [Esug-list] ESUG 2014 Conference

by Serge Stinckwich

Sorry Andy for the delay. We will reply to your request very shortly. Regards Envoyé de mon iPhone > Le 5 août 2014 à 21:09, Jean Marshall and Andy Berry <andy(a)tof.co.uk> a écrit : > > Hi! > > Hope you're all OK and having lots of fun. > > A couple of days ago, I sent an email to the Board address with a question about the conference. I've not had a reply so I am wondering whether the Board got it. > > Could one of the Board members send me an email so I can ask the question? > > Thanks, > > Andy Berry > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

Aug. 5, 2014

ESUG 2014 Conference

by Jean Marshall and Andy Berry

Hi! Hope you're all OK and having lots of fun. A couple of days ago, I sent an email to the Board address with a question about the conference. I've not had a reply so I am wondering whether the Board got it. Could one of the Board members send me an email so I can ask the question? Thanks, Andy Berry --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Aug. 5, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] "Pharo is Smalltalk inspired"

by John O'Keefe

Count me in. John O'Keefe [|], CTO/Principal Smalltalk Architect Instantiations Inc On Aug 4, 2014 4:09 PM, "Tim Mackinnon" <tim.mackinnon(a)testitworks.com> wrote: > > On 31 Jul 2014, at 14:49, Andres Valloud < > avalloud(a)smalltalk.comcastbiz.net> wrote: > > So, ideally, those interested in tackling these challenges would get on > the same page in person. We can start doing that just two weeks from now > (*and* over beer or equivalent). I'm looking forward to it :). > > > > So should we have a BOF about this in the pub at ESUG 2014 this year? > > Tim > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > >

Aug. 5, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] "Pharo is Smalltalk inspired"

by Tim Mackinnon

On 31 Jul 2014, at 14:49, Andres Valloud <avalloud(a)smalltalk.comcastbiz.net> wrote: > So, ideally, those interested in tackling these challenges would get on the same page in person. We can start doing that just two weeks from now (*and* over beer or equivalent). I'm looking forward to it :). So should we have a BOF about this in the pub at ESUG 2014 this year? Tim

Aug. 4, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] "Pharo is Smalltalk inspired"

by Reinout Heeck

On 7/31/2014 9:56 PM, Dale Henrichs wrote: > Reinout, > > I have a feeling that if we had a chance to talk that we would be in > "screaming agreement." We share that feeling :-) [snipped the actual content] > And I'm sorry I made you cringe:) You didn't, the context did -- but I guess you already knew that :-) R -

Aug. 4, 2014

ESUG Innovation Technology Awards

by Jan Vrany

Hi guys, does anybody of you managed to submit a project to awards following instructions on the website? It somehow does not work for me (see below) and apparently Joachim has experience the same problem (see below). Jordi, could it be that some permittions are set wrong in the app? Is there other way to submit a project? Thanks a lot, see you soon, Jan On 29/07/14 13:59, jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de wrote: > Jan, > > I see the exact same behavior on Safari 7.05 on Mac. > > So how can we propose a solution??? > > Joachim > > Am 28.07.14 um 20:41 schrieb Jan Vrany: >> Hi Jordi, >> >> thanks for reminder :-) >> > >>> Applicants should provide the following information on the conference >>> registration server. Once you have registered your personal info, an >>> 'Awards' menu allows submitting your software. You can provide this >>> information when you first register, or login again later and update >>> your details. >> >> Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but it does not work for me. >> >> When I log in, I see top menu (items in capital on back background) >> and second menu (normal letters, turquoise background). None contains >> 'Awards' though the second contains 'Proposed Awards', so I guess >> this is what you meant. >> >> When clicking 'Proposed Awards' I see a page showing: >> >> Submitted awards >> Add >> Name (D) >> Total: 0 >> >> I found no way to add a new proposal. The 'Add' text is not >> clickable. Could you please give me a hint what I'm doing wrong? >> >> All the best, Jan >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >> > >

Aug. 2, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] "Pharo is Smalltalk inspired"

by Tim Mackinnon

I like different Smalltalks, and I also like Pharo. I'm not sure if they are different, and even whether I care, However I do care about preserving the energy in respective communities - and in particular the iterative improvements I see happening in Pharo (which is not to downplay things happening in other Smalltalks either). I really want to see Pharo continue unhindered by past convictions, and from their recent track record I trust them to keep forging on. Thanks guys! Tim Sent from my iPhone > On 1 Aug 2014, at 02:16 pm, Davorin Rusevljan <davorin.rusevljan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Helge Nowak <hknowak(a)yahoo.de> wrote: >> Dear Pharoers, >> >> I stumbled upon Doru’s (BTW excellent, as usual) presentation on Live Objects at NDC 2014. In there he states “Pharo is Smalltalk inspired. … we want to point ourselves that we are Smalltalk inspired because we want to move towards the future”. This implies three things: >> Pharo is NOT Smalltalk >> All Smalltalks are not moving towards the future >> The Pharo community wants to get divorced from the community that gave them birth >> >> I am wondering whether this is indeed the official position of the Pharo community? And how the Smalltalkers think about it. >> >> Cheers >> Helge > > For me, Pharo is very nice Smalltalk dialect, and "Pharo is not Smalltalk", is just marketing speak for me. As I try to valuate things accordingly to what they are and not marketing, I can live quite nice with "Pharo is not Smalltalk", since, as I said I like Pharo Smalltalk pretty much. > > Thanks guys for hard work! > > Davorin Ruševljan > http://www.cloud208.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

Aug. 1, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] "Pharo is Smalltalk inspired"

by Nowak, Helge

:-) Von: Esug-list [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org] Im Auftrag von Davorin Rusevljan Gesendet: Freitag, 1. August 2014 14:16 An: Helge Nowak Cc: ESUG; pharo-business(a)lists.pharo.org Betreff: Re: [Esug-list] "Pharo is Smalltalk inspired" On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Helge Nowak <hknowak(a)yahoo.de<mailto:hknowak@yahoo.de>> wrote: Dear Pharoers, I stumbled upon Doru’s (BTW excellent, as usual) presentation on Live Objects at NDC 2014. In there he states “Pharo is Smalltalk inspired. … we want to point ourselves that we are Smalltalk inspired because we want to move towards the future”. This implies three things: 1. Pharo is NOT Smalltalk 1. All Smalltalks are not moving towards the future 1. The Pharo community wants to get divorced from the community that gave them birth I am wondering whether this is indeed the official position of the Pharo community? And how the Smalltalkers think about it. Cheers Helge For me, Pharo is very nice Smalltalk dialect, and "Pharo is not Smalltalk", is just marketing speak for me. As I try to valuate things accordingly to what they are and not marketing, I can live quite nice with "Pharo is not Smalltalk", since, as I said I like Pharo Smalltalk pretty much. Thanks guys for hard work! Davorin Ruševljan http://www.cloud208.com

Aug. 1, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] "Pharo is Smalltalk inspired"

by Davorin Rusevljan

On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Helge Nowak <hknowak(a)yahoo.de> wrote: > Dear Pharoers, > > I stumbled upon Doru’s (BTW excellent, as usual) presentation on Live > Objects at NDC 2014. In there he states “Pharo is Smalltalk inspired. … we > want to point ourselves that we are Smalltalk inspired because we want to > move towards the future”. This implies three things: > > 1. Pharo is NOT Smalltalk > 2. All Smalltalks are not moving towards the future > 3. The Pharo community wants to get divorced from the community that > gave them birth > > > I am wondering whether this is indeed the official position of the Pharo > community? And how the Smalltalkers think about it. > > Cheers > Helge > > For me, Pharo is very nice Smalltalk dialect, and "Pharo is not Smalltalk", is just marketing speak for me. As I try to valuate things accordingly to what they are and not marketing, I can live quite nice with "Pharo is not Smalltalk", since, as I said I like Pharo Smalltalk pretty much. Thanks guys for hard work! Davorin Ruševljan http://www.cloud208.com

Aug. 1, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] "Pharo is Smalltalk inspired"

by Helge Nowak

In Germany we say "analogies limp". And so does the parents/child analogy for communities. Cheers Helge ________________________________ Von: Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> An: Richard Sargent <rsargent(a)5x5.on.ca> CC: Helge Nowak <hknowak(a)yahoo.de>; Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>; ESUG <esug-list(a)lists.esug.org>; "pharo-business(a)lists.pharo.org" <pharo-business(a)lists.pharo.org>; "pharo-consortium(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr" <pharo-consortium(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Gesendet: 21:22 Donnerstag, 31.Juli 2014 Betreff: Re: [Esug-list] "Pharo is Smalltalk inspired" ***THANKS*** for your great words. Indeed I have three boys and I expect them to be smarter and better than me (without having to kill me :)). some people forget that around the corner we have Javascript, Lua, Python, ruby and scala, dart…..and many others and such battles are far more important. Stef On 31 Jul 2014, at 18:10, Richard Sargent <rsargent(a)5x5.on.ca> wrote: In my opinion, this entire thread is based on an "argument from a false premise". "Pharo is not Smalltalk. Pharo is Smalltalk-inspired." My son is not me. He is inspired by me. Why would I want him to be "just like me"? My ambition is that he will be better than me. He has grown and left home. Does that mean he has divorced me? He doesn't want to be a programmer. Is that a bad thing? I feel like a family friend, watching a child grow into an adult. There is a sense of pride - vicarious - in watching Pharo's growth. The is a sense of anticipation of what Pharo's future will be. Am I concerned that this child will repudiate beliefs and behaviours I hold dear? Not in the least! It comes from good stock and it's being raised by a good and caring family. Go, Pharo! Fly! Show us what you can be. ----------------- Can we stop discussing "When did you stop beating your wife?" and resume discussing what Pharo should be (or become)? -------- Original message -------- From: Helge Nowak Date:2014/07/31 08:29 (GMT-08:00) To: Tudor Girba Cc: ESUG ,pharo-consortium@lists.gforge.inria.fr,pharo-business@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Esug-list] "Pharo is Smalltalk inspired" Dear Stef and Doru, what Doru is saying seems contradictory to what Stef does (or I do not understand one, or the both of you correctly): Doru says: "Pharo is not Smalltalk. Pharo is Smalltalk-inspired." Whereas Stef says "Pharo is to reinvent Smalltalk" and "I prefer that my students find a job in “Smalltalk”". From which I take that Stef sees himself and Pharo as part of the Smalltalk community. Something I had hoped to hear ;-) I am with Kent Pitman: "Smalltalk" is not technically defined but by the (sub-)communities and their values. The development of Smalltalk will never stop, each dialect may take its own path yet it will stay "Smalltalk" regardless of what you name it. Only if one thinks that being part of the Smalltalk community doesn't serve him/her well he/she will leave it. I don't see how Pharo and its community did a departure from the Smalltalk values and its overall community. And I hope this will stay that way. Cheers Helge Von: Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> An: Helge Nowak <hknowak(a)yahoo.de> CC: "pharo-business(a)lists.pharo.org" <pharo-business(a)lists.pharo.org>; "pharo-consortium(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr" <pharo-consortium(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr>; ESUG <esug-list(a)lists.esug.org> Gesendet: 17:05 Donnerstag, 31.Juli 2014 Betreff: Re: [Esug-list] "Pharo is Smalltalk inspired" Hi, The official Pharo statement is clearly stated on the http://pharo.org/ webpage. This topic has been (re)discussed recently spawned by my original post on Pharo is Pharo: http://www.tudorgirba.com/blog/pharo-is-pharo You can choose to see in my words what you wish. I will choose to not fight it. I did it before and it lead nowhere. I will only state that we clearly want to position Pharo to build a future that we do not know at this point in time. Cheers, Doru Cheers, Doru On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Helge Nowak <hknowak(a)yahoo.de> wrote: Dear Pharoers, > >I stumbled upon Doru’s (BTW excellent, as usual) presentation on Live Objects at NDC 2014. In there he states “Pharo is Smalltalk inspired. … we want to point ourselves that we are Smalltalk inspired because we want to move towards the future”. This implies three things: > 1. Pharo is NOT Smalltalk > 2. All Smalltalks are not moving towards the future > 3. The Pharo community wants to get divorced from the community that gave them birth > > >I am wondering whether this is indeed the official position of the Pharo community? And how the Smalltalkers think about it. > >Cheers >Helge > > >_______________________________________________ >Esug-list mailing list >Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > -- http://www.tudorgirba.com/ "Every thing has its own flow" _______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

Aug. 1, 2014