February 2014 - Esug-list - lists.esug.org

Re: [Esug-list] The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by Johan Fabry

+1 on this. On Feb 10, 2014, at 9:14 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > I support it, too. > > The only path to action I see is to act. And in this situation, Paolo was the only one that offered a pragmatic way out. Thank you, Paolo! :) > > So, I suggest this: > - we take Marcus' suggestion and have the present issue be handled at the next ESUG general assembly. Like this we ensure that the problem is going to be addressed in a more effective environment (namely, more structured, and not via mail). > - we go forward with Paolo as an admin. Like this we ensure that action happens now. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > > On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I support this, along with a general require that you keep this discussion in private. > > Esteban > > On 10 Feb 2014, at 12:10, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > > > I no longer have confidence in Janko running as GSoC admin > > and want Paolo to take over as admin for Esug as mentoring organisation. > > > > Stephan Eggermont > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Esug-list mailing list > > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by Tudor Girba

I support it, too. The only path to action I see is to act. And in this situation, Paolo was the only one that offered a pragmatic way out. Thank you, Paolo! :) So, I suggest this: - we take Marcus' suggestion and have the present issue be handled at the next ESUG general assembly. Like this we ensure that the problem is going to be addressed in a more effective environment (namely, more structured, and not via mail). - we go forward with Paolo as an admin. Like this we ensure that action happens now. Cheers, Doru On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>wrote: > I support this, along with a general require that you keep this discussion > in private. > > Esteban > > On 10 Feb 2014, at 12:10, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > > > I no longer have confidence in Janko running as GSoC admin > > and want Paolo to take over as admin for Esug as mentoring organisation. > > > > Stephan Eggermont > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Esug-list mailing list > > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by Esteban Lorenzano

I support this, along with a general require that you keep this discussion in private. Esteban On 10 Feb 2014, at 12:10, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > I no longer have confidence in Janko running as GSoC admin > and want Paolo to take over as admin for Esug as mentoring organisation. > > Stephan Eggermont > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by Stephan Eggermont

I no longer have confidence in Janko running as GSoC admin and want Paolo to take over as admin for Esug as mentoring organisation. Stephan Eggermont

Feb. 10, 2014

The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by Janko Mivšek

Dne 10. 02. 2014 11:08, piše Stéphane Ducasse: > Janko CAN YOU STOP! > > "blatantly unethical behavior” > Really > > Stef Stef, we are waiting to you. Will you tell us your part of the story about your GSoC 2010 act or shall I start by myself? Janko >> Phil, >> This matter is actually very important for Smalltalk community, >> because it exposes nontransparent, meddling behind the scenes, >> and in some cases blatantly unethical behavior of some ESUG board >> members. Which is certainly bad for our community on long term. >> Such matters need to be clarified and some conclusions to be made for a >> community to preserve health and go on. Otherwise you are drowning into >> murky waters more and more. >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> Dne 10. 02. 2014 09:12, piše phil(a)highoctane.be >> <mailto:phil@highoctane.be>: >>> Guys, >>> >>> From the outside it just looks like a couple of spoiled kids battling in >>> the kindergarten. >>> >>> All of this is not moving Smalltalk and Pharo any single bit forward. >>> Backwards, there is a fair chance. >>> >>> Now, could you take this discussion elsewhere? Pick up a phone and talk. >>> >>> Who cares if anyone is right? Oh yeah, EUR 4K, what a huge amount to >>> fight over for an European org... (rolleyes). >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com >>> <mailto:luc.fabresse@gmail.com> >>> <mailto:luc.fabresse@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Janko, >>> >>> I do not have all numbers at hand now but in 2013 there were 4 >>> extra-GSOC but we paid only 3 because one student gave >>> up (Jean-Baptiste Beuzelin). >>> So yes you are probably right that it remains money if we integrate >>> last year BUT we were willing to spend it. >>> >>> Luc >>> >>> >>> 2014-02-09 Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si >>> <mailto:janko.mivsek@eranova.si> >>> <mailto:janko.mivsek@eranova.si>>: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> First to Luc: from your numbers it is clear that you are not to be >>> blamed on anything, because you were obviously misinformed and >>> misguided. >>> >>> Facts namely are: >>> >>> 1. GSoC mentors decided to pay extra stipendiums 3000 USD [1] >>> while >>> ESUG without approval paid 2000 more, 5000 USD, without any >>> report >>> back to GSoC mentors, >>> >>> 2. GSoC mentors decided to add past GSoC2012 amount to the >>> pool for >>> paying extra projects [2][3]. >>> >>> Calculation (without the Summit expenses) therefore is: >>> >>> Income: GSoC 2012 13x 500 = 6.500 USD >>> GSoC 2013 13x 500 = 6.500 USD >>> ------------------------------ >>> 13.000 USD >>> >>> Expenses: >>> Extra stipendiums: 3x 3.000 = 9.000 USD >>> >>> Difference: + 4.000 USD >>> >>> If ESUG would follow the decisions of GSoC mentors it wouldn't >>> loose any >>> money but gain 4.000 USD. >>> >>> Those that misinformed and misguided you needs therefore to >>> apologize to >>> you Luc, to the GSoC mentors and to me as admin! >>> >>> Janko >>> >>> [1] >>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/Yrlj8dIgGPg >>> [2] >>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/WwnxpkXzAB8 >>> [3] >>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/tR44jdPT5Hw >>> >>> >>> Dne 09. 02. 2014 17:26, piše Luc Fabresse: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> ------------ >>>> FACTS >>>> >>>> As you all know, I am the ESUG treasurer. >>>> So please find the numbers attached for the ESUG support of GSOC >>>> projects in 2013. >>>> >>>> ESUG sponsored 3 "extra-GSOC" meaning extra slots not accepted >>> by Google. >>>> In the file it is: Alejandro Infante, Pablo Estefo and >>> Benjamin Arezki. >>>> >>>> All in all we paid: >>>> - 3695EUR (~5000USD at that time i.e. same cost as a regular >>> GSOC) each >>>> projects >>>> - Serge trip to Mentor summit >>>> >>>> And we received 5552EUR from Google >>>> >>>> so yes we lost ~6582EUR >>>> That is easy 13*500 USD would only cover 1 plain extra-Gsoc and we >>>> sponsorized 3. >>>> >>>> I also think that it is important to send someone to the GSoc >>> mentor >>>> summit because it participates to the fact that Google >>> recognizes ESUG >>>> ang gives slots the next year. >>>> >>>> It is alos important to note dates. >>>> ESUG paid first and then has been refund by Google. >>>> It would not be possible to do it without ESUG. >>>> >>>> ------------ >>>> FROM HERE, MY POINT OF VIEW ON THIS STORY: >>>> >>>> As some of you know, I doing the ESUG treasury stuff on my >>> *own* time >>>> and it takes a lot! >>>> I am doing it because I strongly believe that Smalltalk (all >>> falvors!) >>>> is a really great language that should be more widespread. >>>> >>>> I also completely open to discussions. >>>> The ESUG board can also explain its actions and even money status. >>>> I can do errors too. >>>> So if Janko wants some details on GSOC related money, JUST ASK! >>>> >>>> I cannot admit that: >>>> >>>> - Janko wrote about some money accusation. This is directly >>> directed >>>> against the treasurer so me. >>>> And honestly, just reading again that I am biased and that I >>> hide or >>>> steal money make me think that I should better quit. >>>> >>>> - Janko asked for apologies! what is that? even if I would >>> have done a >>>> mistake (and ESUG did not loose money), YOU STILL MUST THANK >>> ME for >>>> DOING THIS BORING TASK! and then I can correct mistakes if any >>>> >>>> - People wants an answer fast, this conversation started >>> yesterday and I >>>> am spending my week-end with my kids >>>> >>>> >>>> I am really fed up with this kind of attitude. >>>> Stop accuse, better ask, discuss and we will solve the >>> problems together >>>> if any. >>>> But I think it will never happen... >>>> >>>> #Luc >>>> The disgusted Treasurer of ESUG who will finish his week-end >>> in bad mood -- Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] Pharo Weekly

by Tudor Girba

Excellent! Thanks, Doru On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > Hi guys > > I started a blog about pharo for those that do not want to read 1000 mails > to get information :) > > http://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/ > > > Spread the word > > Stef > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] It makes my toes curl

by Tudor Girba

Thank you, Reinout :) Doru On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Reinout Heeck <reinout(a)soops.nl> wrote: > > dear Smalltalk promoters, > I have too many friends that are in a divorce with kids in the picture. > > I have an understanding with them: they can talk (rant) to me about > anything regarding their divorce, but not in public and not at parties. > > > > So this stuff: > >> Now, I want to have details about your message. What do you mean by >> "blatantly unethical behavior"? At which point have we been unethical? >> > > please take it to a private place, not at this party. > > > > And this stuff: > > Cc: "smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com" > <smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com>, > The general-purpose Squeak developers list > <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org>, > Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org>, > "phil(a)highoctane.be" <phil(a)highoctane.be>, > ESUG Mailing list <esug-list(a)lists.esug.org>, > pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > > > is like my friends yelling at night keeping half the street awake. > > > > It makes my toes curl in shame, > please -pretty please- tune it down. > > > > > Reinout > ----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] [Pharo-dev] [gsoc-mentors] The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by Marcus Denker

On 10 Feb 2014, at 11:08, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > >> Phil, >> >> This matter is actually very important for Smalltalk community, because >> it exposes nontransparent, meddling behind the scenes, and in some cases >> blatantly unethical behavior of some ESUG board members. Which is >> certainly bad for our community on long term. > > > > Janko CAN YOU STOP! > > "blatantly unethical behavior” > Really > I propose we do at the next ESUG the following: - the general assembly sets up and vote for a small group (3-5 people?) - they look into the issues - then report back to the general assembly It will of course been taken care that this gremium is independed. Because via email this is really not going to work. Marcus

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] [Pharo-dev] [gsoc-mentors] The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by Stéphane Ducasse

Paolo we are > blatantly unethical behavior so we cannot do more. Stef >> Paolo >> >> I did not discuss yet with the ESUG board but we are sick of all this. >> Can you really run the GSOC this year administratively because I think >> that ESUG should stop to be a bank for it? >> I think that Janko is getting off. We cannot work with a person like >> that. I will make us lose too much energy. >> Like that the mentors will be free to do whatever they want to do. > > Stef, > > please calm down. I *hope* that you wanted to make this mail private. Public mailing lists are not the right place for this language, much less with such a wide crosspost. > > I already mentioned that all I care about is to have students funded by Google and working in Smalltalk. ESUG will get $500 per student, and can use them to send more people to the mentor summit or whatever else they prefer---I don't want to have *anything* to do with how ESUG spends their GSoC money. > > Paolo > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] [Pharo-dev] [gsoc-mentors] The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by Stéphane Ducasse

> Phil, > > This matter is actually very important for Smalltalk community, because > it exposes nontransparent, meddling behind the scenes, and in some cases > blatantly unethical behavior of some ESUG board members. Which is > certainly bad for our community on long term. Janko CAN YOU STOP! "blatantly unethical behavior” Really Stef > > Such matters need to be clarified and some conclusions to be made for a > community to preserve health and go on. Otherwise you are drowning into > murky waters more and more. > > Best regards > Janko > > Dne 10. 02. 2014 09:12, piše phil(a)highoctane.be: >> Guys, >> >> From the outside it just looks like a couple of spoiled kids battling in >> the kindergarten. >> >> All of this is not moving Smalltalk and Pharo any single bit forward. >> Backwards, there is a fair chance. >> >> Now, could you take this discussion elsewhere? Pick up a phone and talk. >> >> Who cares if anyone is right? Oh yeah, EUR 4K, what a huge amount to >> fight over for an European org... (rolleyes). >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com >> <mailto:luc.fabresse@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Hi Janko, >> >> I do not have all numbers at hand now but in 2013 there were 4 >> extra-GSOC but we paid only 3 because one student gave >> up (Jean-Baptiste Beuzelin). >> So yes you are probably right that it remains money if we integrate >> last year BUT we were willing to spend it. >> >> Luc >> >> >> 2014-02-09 Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si >> <mailto:janko.mivsek@eranova.si>>: >> >> Dear all, >> >> First to Luc: from your numbers it is clear that you are not to be >> blamed on anything, because you were obviously misinformed and >> misguided. >> >> Facts namely are: >> >> 1. GSoC mentors decided to pay extra stipendiums 3000 USD [1] while >> ESUG without approval paid 2000 more, 5000 USD, without any >> report >> back to GSoC mentors, >> >> 2. GSoC mentors decided to add past GSoC2012 amount to the pool for >> paying extra projects [2][3]. >> >> Calculation (without the Summit expenses) therefore is: >> >> Income: GSoC 2012 13x 500 = 6.500 USD >> GSoC 2013 13x 500 = 6.500 USD >> ------------------------------ >> 13.000 USD >> >> Expenses: >> Extra stipendiums: 3x 3.000 = 9.000 USD >> >> Difference: + 4.000 USD >> >> If ESUG would follow the decisions of GSoC mentors it wouldn't >> loose any >> money but gain 4.000 USD. >> >> Those that misinformed and misguided you needs therefore to >> apologize to >> you Luc, to the GSoC mentors and to me as admin! >> >> Janko >> >> [1] >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/Yrlj8dIgGPg >> [2] >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/WwnxpkXzAB8 >> [3] >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/tR44jdPT5Hw >> >> >> Dne 09. 02. 2014 17:26, piše Luc Fabresse: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> ------------ >>> FACTS >>> >>> As you all know, I am the ESUG treasurer. >>> So please find the numbers attached for the ESUG support of GSOC >>> projects in 2013. >>> >>> ESUG sponsored 3 "extra-GSOC" meaning extra slots not accepted >> by Google. >>> In the file it is: Alejandro Infante, Pablo Estefo and >> Benjamin Arezki. >>> >>> All in all we paid: >>> - 3695EUR (~5000USD at that time i.e. same cost as a regular >> GSOC) each >>> projects >>> - Serge trip to Mentor summit >>> >>> And we received 5552EUR from Google >>> >>> so yes we lost ~6582EUR >>> That is easy 13*500 USD would only cover 1 plain extra-Gsoc and we >>> sponsorized 3. >>> >>> I also think that it is important to send someone to the GSoc >> mentor >>> summit because it participates to the fact that Google >> recognizes ESUG >>> ang gives slots the next year. >>> >>> It is alos important to note dates. >>> ESUG paid first and then has been refund by Google. >>> It would not be possible to do it without ESUG. >>> >>> ------------ >>> FROM HERE, MY POINT OF VIEW ON THIS STORY: >>> >>> As some of you know, I doing the ESUG treasury stuff on my >> *own* time >>> and it takes a lot! >>> I am doing it because I strongly believe that Smalltalk (all >> falvors!) >>> is a really great language that should be more widespread. >>> >>> I also completely open to discussions. >>> The ESUG board can also explain its actions and even money status. >>> I can do errors too. >>> So if Janko wants some details on GSOC related money, JUST ASK! >>> >>> I cannot admit that: >>> >>> - Janko wrote about some money accusation. This is directly >> directed >>> against the treasurer so me. >>> And honestly, just reading again that I am biased and that I >> hide or >>> steal money make me think that I should better quit. >>> >>> - Janko asked for apologies! what is that? even if I would >> have done a >>> mistake (and ESUG did not loose money), YOU STILL MUST THANK >> ME for >>> DOING THIS BORING TASK! and then I can correct mistakes if any >>> >>> - People wants an answer fast, this conversation started >> yesterday and I >>> am spending my week-end with my kids >>> >>> >>> I am really fed up with this kind of attitude. >>> Stop accuse, better ask, discuss and we will solve the >> problems together >>> if any. >>> But I think it will never happen... >>> >>> #Luc >>> The disgusted Treasurer of ESUG who will finish his week-end >> in bad mood >>> >> >> >> -- >> Janko Mivšek >> Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team >> >> >> > > -- > Janko Mivšek > Svetovalec za informatiko > Eranova d.o.o. > Ljubljana, Slovenija > www.eranova.si > tel: 01 514 22 55 > faks: 01 514 22 56 > gsm: 031 674 565

Feb. 10, 2014