February 2014 - Esug-list - lists.esug.org

Re: [Esug-list] [Pharo-dev] [gsoc-mentors] Re: The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by Igor Stasenko

On 11 February 2014 01:30, Alexander Lazarević <alexander(a)lazarevic.de>wrote: > Wait wait wait wait! Now I get it! This is a drama queen contest, isn't > it?! Where can I vote? > > People please relax, try to get laid over the weekend and let's talk on > monday again ... > > Phew .... Shhheeeezus > > you are blah-blahtly unethical! shame on you! :) > Cheers, > Alex > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 11, 2014

[GSoc 2014] Collecting project ideas and preparing the application

by Paolo Bonzini

Hi all, now that Janko has kindly accepted to step down and I've been appointed by ESUG board as organization admin, here is my proposal for GSoC 2014. Everything except publishing project ideas will be done through Google's Melange application. Project ideas will be sent by email and I'll publish them on the ESUG wiki. Therefore, here are my first two requests: - trivially, an account on the ESUG wiki so that i can collect and post the ideas; - interested mentors should start a thread for their favorite Smalltalk dialect called "[GSoC ideas] Dialect name" and send it to the project mailing list. Please Cc smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com *and myself*. This is very important in case Google Groups rejects messages from non-members or anything like that. The message could be something like this: Hi fellow <Smalltalk dialect name> hackers, ESUG, the European Smalltalk User Group, is applying for this year's Google Summer of Code. As you probably know, the Summer of Code provides the opportunity to fund students to work during the summer on <Smalltalk dialect name>. Please reply to this email (be sure to use "Reply to all") if you have ideas you would like to propose. Please include a summary of the project and links to web pages that can help prospective students to write their application. Please also include the following information: - if applicable, other dialects that you would be willing to mentor this project for - the skill level - name of the mentor(s), email addresses, and possibly any IRC network/channel/nickname where they can be found. Thanks for contributing to ESUG's Summer of Code application! <Your name here> I'm drafting the 2014 application based on past year's (http://gsoc2013.esug.org/application) Serge, can you provide me the numbers for passing and failing students in the 2013 edition? I expect to follow up in a few days and announce who the backup admin will be. Future messages will *not* be sent to esug-list(a)lists.esug.org, so please subscribe to the mentors mailing list smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com if you are interested in the program. Thanks, your friendly neighborhood GSoC administrator Paolo Bonzini

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude)

by Igor Stasenko

On 10 February 2014 22:52, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Göran, Hi Gilad, Hi All, > > > On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Göran Krampe <goran(a)krampe.se> wrote: > >> Hi fellow Small-speak-new-talkers! >> >> Cross-posting continues... >> >> >> On 02/10/2014 06:47 PM, Gilad Bracha wrote: >> >>> I should know better than to get involved in this sad affair. >>> >> >> Muaahaa! Fail! :) (yes, I am actually injecting some humor here) >> >> I will note that when the Smalltalk GSoc effort started, I was >>> *explicitly asked to participate*. I myself noted that Newspeak is >>> >>> sufficiently different from Smalltalk that it should be regarded as a >>> different language, but was assured that this effort was designed to be >>> inclusive of anything in the Smalltalk family. >>> >> >> Just to give you +1 on the Smalltalk family part. I mean, hell, we even >> share the VM! >> >> And I am not sure people understand how important this has been for us >> Squeak/Pharooners, AFAIK a LOT of the work from Eliot has been done through >> Newspeakish money, right? >> > > Yes. I've worked for Cadence twice. Once in 2007 to 2008 where I first > worked on the Squeak interpreter and added immutability. Form there, now > familiar with VMMaker I went to Qwaq and got to create Cog. I'm now back > at Cadence and able to continue to work on Cog. In particular, Spur has > only been possible because of my boss at Cadence, Yaron Kashai. At Cadence > we're using Newspeak to implement systems for SoaC integration. Without > Newspeak there would be no Spur. WIthout Newspeak the Cog VM would not be > nearly as developed or reliable. > > I don't want to stoke the flames but I do hope that the community will > consider Newspeak as part of the Smalltalk family. It is definitely a > blood relative. Don't treat it like a black sheep. > > I am not arguing whether Newspeak belongs to smalltalk family or not (clearly it is). The point is that 'S' letter in ESUG stands for Smalltalk, not Newspeak. (else we should be naming it properly - ENUG). So, the question is whether any non-smalltalk project is eligible to run and compete (because there is limited number of slots) with smalltalk projects under ESUG umbrella? If ESUG would take such road, i bet soon you will find many angry mentors, who was outvoted/outnumbered by "cool" PHP-MySql web projects. > >> [SNIP] >> >> I have no interest in starting a flame war here - I have watched the >>> recent goings on on this list with a feeling of great sadness. I have >>> done what I can to help Smalltalk, and individuals in that community >>> (you know who you are) and will continue to do so. >>> >> >> Cool! >> >> The Smalltalk community is full of passion. Sometimes we end up flaming >> all out - although very seldom I think compared to many other communities >> (or so I hear). I have always been proud of that in our community. >> >> This time it was sad that it went so far that I fear the main combatants >> have a hard time getting through and shaking hands in the end?! It also >> shows how two non-native english writers - both with fast fingers - can >> really... make a mess :) >> >> 3 timesRepeat: [ >> If you do though - *that* would be the true mark of leaders] >> >> regards, Göran >> >> PS. I decided a looooong time ago after a bad clash with Andreas (rest >> his soul) that... what the hell, life is too short for political crap! Move >> on, have fun, write code. So, spent 10 minutes on this post - now back to >> hacking protobuf support for Squeak and Pharo! Yiha! > > > Amen! > Eliot > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude)

by Eliot Miranda

Hi Göran, Hi Gilad, Hi All, On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Göran Krampe <goran(a)krampe.se> wrote: > Hi fellow Small-speak-new-talkers! > > Cross-posting continues... > > > On 02/10/2014 06:47 PM, Gilad Bracha wrote: > >> I should know better than to get involved in this sad affair. >> > > Muaahaa! Fail! :) (yes, I am actually injecting some humor here) > > I will note that when the Smalltalk GSoc effort started, I was >> *explicitly asked to participate*. I myself noted that Newspeak is >> >> sufficiently different from Smalltalk that it should be regarded as a >> different language, but was assured that this effort was designed to be >> inclusive of anything in the Smalltalk family. >> > > Just to give you +1 on the Smalltalk family part. I mean, hell, we even > share the VM! > > And I am not sure people understand how important this has been for us > Squeak/Pharooners, AFAIK a LOT of the work from Eliot has been done through > Newspeakish money, right? > Yes. I've worked for Cadence twice. Once in 2007 to 2008 where I first worked on the Squeak interpreter and added immutability. Form there, now familiar with VMMaker I went to Qwaq and got to create Cog. I'm now back at Cadence and able to continue to work on Cog. In particular, Spur has only been possible because of my boss at Cadence, Yaron Kashai. At Cadence we're using Newspeak to implement systems for SoaC integration. Without Newspeak there would be no Spur. WIthout Newspeak the Cog VM would not be nearly as developed or reliable. I don't want to stoke the flames but I do hope that the community will consider Newspeak as part of the Smalltalk family. It is definitely a blood relative. Don't treat it like a black sheep. > > [SNIP] > > I have no interest in starting a flame war here - I have watched the >> recent goings on on this list with a feeling of great sadness. I have >> done what I can to help Smalltalk, and individuals in that community >> (you know who you are) and will continue to do so. >> > > Cool! > > The Smalltalk community is full of passion. Sometimes we end up flaming > all out - although very seldom I think compared to many other communities > (or so I hear). I have always been proud of that in our community. > > This time it was sad that it went so far that I fear the main combatants > have a hard time getting through and shaking hands in the end?! It also > shows how two non-native english writers - both with fast fingers - can > really... make a mess :) > > 3 timesRepeat: [ > If you do though - *that* would be the true mark of leaders] > > regards, Göran > > PS. I decided a looooong time ago after a bad clash with Andreas (rest his > soul) that... what the hell, life is too short for political crap! Move on, > have fun, write code. So, spent 10 minutes on this post - now back to > hacking protobuf support for Squeak and Pharo! Yiha! Amen! Eliot

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude)

by Göran Krampe

Hi fellow Small-speak-new-talkers! Cross-posting continues... On 02/10/2014 06:47 PM, Gilad Bracha wrote: > I should know better than to get involved in this sad affair. Muaahaa! Fail! :) (yes, I am actually injecting some humor here) > I will note that when the Smalltalk GSoc effort started, I was > *explicitly asked to participate*. I myself noted that Newspeak is > sufficiently different from Smalltalk that it should be regarded as a > different language, but was assured that this effort was designed to be > inclusive of anything in the Smalltalk family. Just to give you +1 on the Smalltalk family part. I mean, hell, we even share the VM! And I am not sure people understand how important this has been for us Squeak/Pharooners, AFAIK a LOT of the work from Eliot has been done through Newspeakish money, right? [SNIP] > I have no interest in starting a flame war here - I have watched the > recent goings on on this list with a feeling of great sadness. I have > done what I can to help Smalltalk, and individuals in that community > (you know who you are) and will continue to do so. Cool! The Smalltalk community is full of passion. Sometimes we end up flaming all out - although very seldom I think compared to many other communities (or so I hear). I have always been proud of that in our community. This time it was sad that it went so far that I fear the main combatants have a hard time getting through and shaking hands in the end?! It also shows how two non-native english writers - both with fast fingers - can really... make a mess :) 3 timesRepeat: [ If you do though - *that* would be the true mark of leaders] regards, Göran PS. I decided a looooong time ago after a bad clash with Andreas (rest his soul) that... what the hell, life is too short for political crap! Move on, have fun, write code. So, spent 10 minutes on this post - now back to hacking protobuf support for Squeak and Pharo! Yiha!

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] [Pharo-dev] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude)

by Igor Stasenko

Now that's the worst outcome which came out of it. Thanks, Janko.. i hope you feel better now. On 10 February 2014 18:44, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>wrote: > Hi happy (or sad like me today) Smalltalkers and friends for most of you. > > Thank for the support of some of you. I think that this story is an > amazing press > for Smalltalk. I’m still shocked that people do not realise how it can be > bad for all of us. > Now I have my part of responsibility and I should not have replied to such > aggression. > But I have one rule in life is to never let people lie about me and my > projects. > > Since I feel that I cannot do much beside being systematically insulted > without the right to say anything I will quit the GSOC mentor mailing-list, > I will not propose any topics this year and I will set up a rule to any > mails with Janko or > GSOC to be trashed. > > I’m immensely sad for the students that work with me and all the people > that trust me and > judge me on my acts since all these years. > > Fools and idiots won. I lost no problem. I prefer to focus on creating > good energy. > > No need to reply because my filter is on and delete everything > automatically. > Stef > > In these moments, I wonder why I did not went in ruby. > > > On 10 Feb 2014, at 17:38, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: > > > Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the > > community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real. > > > > For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project > > selection process. > > > > Here is the story: > > > > On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export > > Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], > > Stéphane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the > > list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to > > such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. > > Of course I rejected such an order immediately. > > > > Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade > > study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like > > between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase > > uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve > > his goal. > > > > What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not > > quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such > > removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that > > right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for > > stipendiums. > > > > In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on > > GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible. > > > > Best regards > > Janko > > > > [1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool > > [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas > > > > > > > > > > Dne 10. 02. 2014 15:30, piše Stéphane Ducasse: > >> I can tell you that until now I took that as a little crisis of Janko > but now this makes me sick. > >> I do not think that I will stand in the same room than him in the > future. > >> > >> Sorry Janko you are insulting people publicly but you mention that you > don't. > >> I will check if I have a lawyer to handle this situation because you > cannot have just words against me. > >> I will check with the inria lawyer first. > >> > >> Stef > >> > >> > >> > >>> I do not understand the motivation of Janko, especially since he is > apparently alone to think that way. > >>> It is impressive to see how fragile the community is. > >>> Thanks Paolo and thanks the ESUG board for handling this difficult > situation! > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Alexandre > >>> > >>> > >>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:14 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> I support it, too. > >>>> > >>>> The only path to action I see is to act. And in this situation, Paolo > was the only one that offered a pragmatic way out. Thank you, Paolo! :) > >>>> > >>>> So, I suggest this: > >>>> - we take Marcus' suggestion and have the present issue be handled at > the next ESUG general assembly. Like this we ensure that the problem is > going to be addressed in a more effective environment (namely, more > structured, and not via mail). > >>>> - we go forward with Paolo as an admin. Like this we ensure that > action happens now. > >>>> > >>>> Cheers, > >>>> Doru > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano < > estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> I support this, along with a general require that you keep this > discussion in private. > >>>> > >>>> Esteban > >>>> > >>>> On 10 Feb 2014, at 12:10, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I no longer have confidence in Janko running as GSoC admin > >>>>> and want Paolo to take over as admin for Esug as mentoring > organisation. > >>>>> > >>>>> Stephan Eggermont > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Esug-list mailing list > >>>>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > >>>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Esug-list mailing list > >>>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > >>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> www.tudorgirba.com > >>>> > >>>> "Every thing has its own flow" > >>> > >>> -- > >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. > >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > >> > > > > -- > > Janko Mivšek > > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude)

by Gilad Bracha

I should know better than to get involved in this sad affair. I will note that when the Smalltalk GSoc effort started, I was *explicitly asked to participate*. I myself noted that Newspeak is sufficiently different from Smalltalk that it should be regarded as a different language, but was assured that this effort was designed to be inclusive of anything in the Smalltalk family. So I proposed a few projects none of which were accepted. I think that's fine - no one has to agree with me on what is important or interesting. I also think that saying that Newspeak is outside the Smalltalk "tent" is a legitimate position, even if I may disagree. I know may others in the Smalltalk community have felt that Newspeak, while different, is part of the family. After all, I and I my colleagues have been invited to speak about Newspeak at Smalltalk conferences several times. I have no interest in starting a flame war here - I have watched the recent goings on on this list with a feeling of great sadness. I have done what I can to help Smalltalk, and individuals in that community (you know who you are) and will continue to do so. However, after 2010 I did not participate in GSoc, since it was clear that my ideas did not coincide with those of the wider Smalltalk community. I won't say any more on the topic. I wish you all the best, and I'm glad the GSoc effort continues. On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 10 February 2014 17:38, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: > >> Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the >> community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real. >> >> For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project >> selection process. >> >> Here is the story: >> >> On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export >> Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], >> Stéphane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the >> list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to >> such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. >> Of course I rejected such an order immediately. >> >> Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade >> study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like >> between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase >> uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve >> his goal. >> >> What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not >> quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such >> removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that >> right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for >> stipendiums. >> >> In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on >> GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible. >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> [1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool >> [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas >> >> >> > Lol. > Now please think how much curses will be there if this would be allowed. > > Else why just Newspeak? Why not Ruby, Self, C, C#, Lisp etc.. (i bet there > are many mentors/students who would want to paid for doing project in the > language of their choice). > Except that it is not smalltalk.. and has nothing to do with ESUG mission. > And therefore Stef was absolutely correct. > Case closed. > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > -- Cheers, Gilad

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] [Pharo-dev] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude)

by Stéphane Ducasse

Hi happy (or sad like me today) Smalltalkers and friends for most of you. Thank for the support of some of you. I think that this story is an amazing press for Smalltalk. I’m still shocked that people do not realise how it can be bad for all of us. Now I have my part of responsibility and I should not have replied to such aggression. But I have one rule in life is to never let people lie about me and my projects. Since I feel that I cannot do much beside being systematically insulted without the right to say anything I will quit the GSOC mentor mailing-list, I will not propose any topics this year and I will set up a rule to any mails with Janko or GSOC to be trashed. I’m immensely sad for the students that work with me and all the people that trust me and judge me on my acts since all these years. Fools and idiots won. I lost no problem. I prefer to focus on creating good energy. No need to reply because my filter is on and delete everything automatically. Stef In these moments, I wonder why I did not went in ruby. On 10 Feb 2014, at 17:38, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: > Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the > community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real. > > For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project > selection process. > > Here is the story: > > On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export > Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], > Stéphane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the > list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to > such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. > Of course I rejected such an order immediately. > > Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade > study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like > between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase > uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve > his goal. > > What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not > quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such > removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that > right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for > stipendiums. > > In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on > GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible. > > Best regards > Janko > > [1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool > [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas > > > > > Dne 10. 02. 2014 15:30, piše Stéphane Ducasse: >> I can tell you that until now I took that as a little crisis of Janko but now this makes me sick. >> I do not think that I will stand in the same room than him in the future. >> >> Sorry Janko you are insulting people publicly but you mention that you don't. >> I will check if I have a lawyer to handle this situation because you cannot have just words against me. >> I will check with the inria lawyer first. >> >> Stef >> >> >> >>> I do not understand the motivation of Janko, especially since he is apparently alone to think that way. >>> It is impressive to see how fragile the community is. >>> Thanks Paolo and thanks the ESUG board for handling this difficult situation! >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:14 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I support it, too. >>>> >>>> The only path to action I see is to act. And in this situation, Paolo was the only one that offered a pragmatic way out. Thank you, Paolo! :) >>>> >>>> So, I suggest this: >>>> - we take Marcus' suggestion and have the present issue be handled at the next ESUG general assembly. Like this we ensure that the problem is going to be addressed in a more effective environment (namely, more structured, and not via mail). >>>> - we go forward with Paolo as an admin. Like this we ensure that action happens now. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> I support this, along with a general require that you keep this discussion in private. >>>> >>>> Esteban >>>> >>>> On 10 Feb 2014, at 12:10, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I no longer have confidence in Janko running as GSoC admin >>>>> and want Paolo to take over as admin for Esug as mentoring organisation. >>>>> >>>>> Stephan Eggermont >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > -- > Janko Mivšek > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team >

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude)

by Ron Teitelbaum

Hi Janko, So you overrode Stef’s decision, left the project in, and what happened. Did we get a Newspeak / Smalltalk translator? I’m not sure I agree with Igor here. If someone wanted to do a translator to some other language, that might be cool. Having more ways to integrate with other languages may not be a bad idea. I don’t think it would be a project for a student or something that could be properly accomplished during a summer. But I guess that doesn’t matter, a summer could get you 80% of the way there. This seems to me to be a difference of opinion and not an ethical lapse or an abuse of power. Stef was right in asking for the suggestion to be removed. You were right to disagree. In both cases it was a judgment call. It seems to me that since the project stayed on the site, that Stef was also quite reasonable. He listened to your objection, he heard your opinion, (he probably disagreed with you), and he let the idea stay on the site. The only thing that may have made this better would have been Stef requesting the removal publically. This transparency would have come at the risk of alienating the Newspeak community which in my mind is still part of the Smalltalk community, and one of the better contributors of code for all of us (considering their current work on Cog and Spur). In that light, I understand the desire to do it privately. In this case, in my opinion, everyone acted ethically. There is no blame to be found. All the best, Ron Teitelbaum Head Of Engineering 3d Immersive Collaboration Consulting <mailto:ron@3dicc.com> ron(a)3dicc.com Follow Me On Twitter: <https://twitter.com/RonTeitelbaum> @RonTeitelbaum <http://www.3dicc.com/> www.3dicc.com <https://www.google.com/+3dicc> https://www.google.com/+3dicc From: Esug-list [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org] On Behalf Of Igor Stasenko Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 12:15 PM To: Janko Mivšek Cc: ESUG Mailing list; Pharo Development List; Squeak Subject: Re: [Esug-list] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude) On 10 February 2014 17:38, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real. For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project selection process. Here is the story: On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], Stéphane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. Of course I rejected such an order immediately. Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve his goal. What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for stipendiums. In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible. Best regards Janko [1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas Lol. Now please think how much curses will be there if this would be allowed. Else why just Newspeak? Why not Ruby, Self, C, C#, Lisp etc.. (i bet there are many mentors/students who would want to paid for doing project in the language of their choice). Except that it is not smalltalk.. and has nothing to do with ESUG mission. And therefore Stef was absolutely correct. Case closed. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Esug-list] [Pharo-dev] [gsoc-mentors] Re: The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by Stéphane Ducasse

On 10 Feb 2014, at 16:35, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > So, if i understood correctly, > ESUG spent more money last year running GSoC than it received from Google. > Which literally means ESUG budget lost some money. yes :) Because we wanted to be fair between students :) now we are blablanty unethical :) > Shall any students/mentors/ESUG affiliates be enraged about that fact? > Or did smalltalk community in general lost because of that? > > I may be wrong (because sure thing i am biased asshole), but as to me both answers will be 'no'. > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 10, 2014