July 2012 - Esug-list - lists.esug.org

Re: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium

by Dave Mason

On 2012-Jul-4, at 12:13 , Andreas Raab wrote: > If ESUG wants to sponsor open source Smalltalk dialects by handing out money directly, it should do so fairly and transparently and not favor a single fork of a single dialect. +1 ../Dave

July 4, 2012

Re: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium

by Marcus Denker

I left Squeak because I was "pissed away". I have no problem to leave ESUG, too. herewith I unsubscribe from the ESUG list. Have Fun Marcus On Jul 4, 2012, at 6:13 PM, Andreas Raab wrote: > >> -------- Original-Nachricht -------- >> Datum: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 17:33:12 +0200 >> Von: Alexandre Bergel <abergel(a)dcc.uchile.cl> >> An: Michael Haupt <mhaupt(a)gmail.com> >> CC: ESUG Mailing list <esug-list(a)lists.esug.org> >> Betreff: Re: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium >> >> >> Hi Michael! >> >> Good to see you back! >> >> > how many people on the ESUG board can be considered representatives of >> > communities of Smalltalk dialects other than Pharo? >> >> In an ideal World, this would be indeed important. >> However the amount of people willing to actively participate in the ESUG board is really small. > Really? I don't recall anyone ever asking. In fact, the whole election process of the ESUG board is a complete mystery to me personally. Googling "ESUG board election" nets me a message from 2002(!) about an upcoming election, that's it. Compare this say, with googling "Squeak board election" and you will find election results each year, plus each candidates announcement, discussions, vote counts etc. A bit more transparency would certainly help here... > > Regarding the original question, I think such a membership is unfair to the other open source communities. Sponsoring of specific projects with the goal of fostering the overall Smalltalk community is one thing, paying a perpetual "Pharo tax" quite another. I do not see a compelling reason why Pharo should be supported in such a way by ESUG and not GST, Squeak, Cuis, or any other open source Smalltalk implementation. The money could certainly be used by the other projects for activities like going to and presenting at the ESUG conferences which is often not done for lack of funding. If ESUG wants to sponsor open source Smalltalk dialects by handing out money directly, it should do so fairly and transparently and not favor a single fork of a single dialect. > > Cheers, > - Andreas > > >> >> And being a small community should not prevent us from moving ahead. >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

July 4, 2012

Re: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium

by Andreas Raab

> -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 17:33:12 +0200 > Von: Alexandre Bergel <abergel(a)dcc.uchile.cl> > An: Michael Haupt <mhaupt(a)gmail.com> > CC: ESUG Mailing list <esug-list(a)lists.esug.org> > Betreff: Re: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium > > Hi Michael! > > Good to see you back! > > > how many people on the ESUG board can be considered representatives of > > communities of Smalltalk dialects other than Pharo? > > In an ideal World, this would be indeed important. > However the amount of people willing to actively participate in the ESUG > board is really small. Really? I don't recall anyone ever asking. In fact, the whole election process of the ESUG board is a complete mystery to me personally. Googling "ESUG board election" nets me a message from 2002(!) about an upcoming election, that's it. Compare this say, with googling "Squeak board election" and you will find election results each year, plus each candidates announcement, discussions, vote counts etc. A bit more transparency would certainly help here... Regarding the original question, I think such a membership is unfair to the other open source communities. Sponsoring of specific projects with the goal of fostering the overall Smalltalk community is one thing, paying a perpetual "Pharo tax" quite another. I do not see a compelling reason why Pharo should be supported in such a way by ESUG and not GST, Squeak, Cuis, or any other open source Smalltalk implementation. The money could certainly be used by the other projects for activities like going to and presenting at the ESUG conferences which is often not done for lack of funding. If ESUG wants to sponsor open source Smalltalk dialects by handing out money directly, it should do so fairly and transparently and not favor a single fork of a single dialect. Cheers, - Andreas > > And being a small community should not prevent us from moving ahead. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >

July 4, 2012

Re: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium

by Alexandre Bergel

Hi Michael! Good to see you back! > how many people on the ESUG board can be considered representatives of > communities of Smalltalk dialects other than Pharo? In an ideal World, this would be indeed important. However the amount of people willing to actively participate in the ESUG board is really small. And being a small community should not prevent us from moving ahead. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

July 4, 2012

Re: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium

by Michael Haupt

Damien, On 4 July 2012 17:01, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Before deciding, the board would like to gather feedback from the > community. We want to be clear that there is a strict distinction > between ESUG and Pharo (both consortium and association) even if some > people are involved in both. how many people on the ESUG board can be considered representatives of communities of Smalltalk dialects other than Pharo? (I've been merely lurking on most mailing lists for quite a while now, I haven't been following developments or discussions, I don't know any more about people's Smalltalk-wise affiliations.) Regards, Michael

July 4, 2012

ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium

by Damien Cassou

The ESUG board currently considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium (see http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2012-June/066881.html) We believe that Pharo is important for the Smalltalk ecosystem. Note that ESUG is promoting Smalltalk in general and this action is in the same vein as previous actions such as sponsoring local Smalltalk groups (FAST, Catalan, Russian, …), Smalltalk dialects (SqueakFoundation, etoy), development projects (Mars, DBXTalk, DrGeo II, SqueakVirtual Machine cleaning), and books (Seaside and GNU book). Before deciding, the board would like to gather feedback from the community. We want to be clear that there is a strict distinction between ESUG and Pharo (both consortium and association) even if some people are involved in both. What do you think? -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

July 4, 2012

Camp Smalltalk @ ESUG 2012

by Johan Brichau

Dear Smalltalkers, As usual, Camp Smalltalk at ESUG 2012 will be organized during the preceding weekend on Saturday 24 and Sunday 25 August. The location for this camp are the offices of 2Rivers (Yesplan.be). More information can be found on the ESUG 2012 conference website: http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2012/Camp-Smalltalk-2012 IMPORTANT! If you will attend Camp Smalltalk, please fill in the Doodle poll at: http://www.doodle.com/dw6prz8eq8fqx4vu See you soon in Gent! Johan

July 4, 2012

Re: [Esug-list] **IMPORTANT** MUST READ: Pharo Association and Consortium

by Stéphane Ducasse

On Jul 4, 2012, at 12:24 AM, James Robertson wrote: > What, promoting Smalltalk isn't like that? Kind of but not quite :)

July 4, 2012

Re: [Esug-list] **IMPORTANT** MUST READ: Pharo Association and Consortium

by James Robertson

What, promoting Smalltalk isn't like that? ;) On Jul 3, 2012, at 4:30 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > > On Jul 1, 2012, at 3:11 PM, maarten.mostert(a)stakepoint.com wrote: > >> Stéphane, >> >> A french law 1901 association .. Does this mean that I'll can get a tax refund from my donation ? > > I do not think so because for that Pharo would have to be "one national cause" like fighting cancer :) > >> >> @+Maarten, >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Stéphane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >> Sent: Thursday, 28 June, 2012 14:19 >> To: "An open mailing list to discuss any topics related to an open-source Smalltalk" <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr>, pharo-consortium(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr, "A friendly place where any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr>, "ESUG Mailing list" <esug-list(a)lists.esug.org>, "Moose-related development" <moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch> >> Subject: [Esug-list] **IMPORTANT** MUST READ: Pharo Association and Consortium >> >> Dear Pharoers and Smalltalkers >> >> This mail is really important so read it carefully. Especially the last part of the mail is important for the >> immediate future: we need your support and input. Read section ***Support*** at the end of this mail. >> >> Context >> ======= >> After taking into account feedback from companies and pharo users in different occasions and >> discussing with the INRIA lawyers and the team in charge of the administrative aspect of the consoritum >> here is the setup we finally want for the consortium. We will have two separated entities: >> - one french law 1901 association for individuals and >> - one consortium for institutions (companies, research groups, laboratories, universities...) managed by INRIA >> >> We hope that in the long run the consortium will be fully managed by the association >> but in the current bootstrap phase INRIA is a good solution. >> >> ============== >> The Pharo Association >> ============== >> The goal of the association is to promote Pharo. It will have its own web site. >> >> Individual Memberships (managed by the Pharo Association) >> ---------------------- >> There are two individual memberships >> - Individual Pharo Association Member: Yearly fee 40 Euros >> - Golden Individual Pharo Association Member: Yearly fee 99 Euros >> >> You will get >> a nice goody, >> reduction access to conferences, >> reduction for training and access to teaching material, >> be part of the pharo groups on social networks, >> be part of the pharoAssociation-individual-members mailing-list, >> get access and registered to the pharo association web site. >> >> Others (managed by the Pharo Association) >> ---------------------- >> The association will be able to issues bills so you will be able to buy a Pharo distribution >> when your organization cannot be a member, a sponsor or doing a donation to the Pharo consortium. >> >> End of Pharo Association Description >> >> >> >> =========================== >> The Pharo Consortium (managed by INRIA) >> =========================== >> The goal of the consortium is to structure and build an umbrella to foster business around Pharo and to promote Pharo. >> >> A company, user group, research group, team or institution can be a consortium member, not individual member. >> >> There are three levels of fees and corresponding benefits. You decide your degree of support. >> The annual fees are >> - Bronze 1000 Euros >> - Silver 2000 Euros >> - Gold 4000 Euros >> >> Consortium members main advantages are >> ---------------------------------------- >> Non individual members of the consortium get the following advantages: >> >> - privileged access to the core development team via a specific mailing-list >> pharo-core-team-for-members(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> >> - influence priorities of the next development. The member will be able to propose >> agenda points and items for the executive team. They will be requested one month in >> advance before the committee meeting. >> >> - get access to privileged core engineer time (to address pharo core problems) >> >> - Bronze member gets >> one day of engineering time >> + is automatically a diamond sponsor. >> >> - Silver >> + two days of engineering time >> + one job description for job dashboard >> + is automatically a diamond sponsor.. >> >> - Gold four >> + 4 days of engineering time >> + multiple job description for job dashboard >> + is automatically a diamond sponsor. >> >> - Training special prices and possibility to become pharo trainer >> - Pharo consortium member can also ask and pay for extra support days at INRIA engineer prices (around 600 Euros) per day. >> - Member can offer to their client access to the possibility to pay for extra support days at INRIA engineer prices (around 600 Euros) per day. >> - The core team can provide contact with experts for certain areas of development. >> >> Pharo Consortium Gouvernance: steering committee >> ---------------------------------------- >> The consortium will be managed as follows: There will be a steering committee and an Executive Team. >> >> * A steering committee is composed of one representative of each member (except individuals). >> >> * The chairman of this committee will be Inria >> >> * Steering Committee Role : >> - The Steering Committee follows the execution of the PHARO R&D Team >> - It validates and gives input about the task list of the Executive Team. >> - It can propose members of the executive team. >> - It prepares, organizes conferences, seminars or other animations to promote PHARO and have new members >> - It revises the annual fee >> * Decisions taking: after consultation and collect of representative member points of views, Inria takes the final decision. >> >> * The steering committee will communicate via a private mailing-list. It may meet physical once a year. >> >> * An agenda to reach conclusion will be established by Inria on proposals of the members (the members will be queried a month in advance). >> >> Technical Executive Committee (akaR&D task) >> ---------------------------------------- >> * The Executive Team is composed of members proposed by the steering board and RMOD Team >> * Its roles is to >> * Study, analyze and validate external contributions for PHARO >> * Report to the steering committee >> * Present a task list to the steering committee. >> * Propose, schedule and implement tasks in conformance with the tasks list. >> * Coordinate the release Pharo and its VMs >> >> Pharo consortium Sponsoring >> --------------------------- >> Orthogonally to memberships, an entity can be a sponsor of the consortium without being a pharo consortium member. >> Pharo consortium are de factor platinium sponsor. Sponsors will get their logos name exposed to the consortium web site. >> There are two kinds of sponsors: >> - normal 500 Euros >> - diamond 1000 Euros >> >> Job board >> --------- >> Non consortium member companies will be able to pay a fee (1000 Euros) to post job offers to the job board. >> >> End of Pharo Consortium Description >> >> >> ===================== >> *** Support and Answer needed*** >> ===================== >> >> To be able to pay an engineer by the consortium, INRIA needs to make projection, build budget, pay attention to visa >> and other important administrative tasks. To deal with the risk that the consortium may not collect enough to pay a full salary >> we are considering to ask INRIA to help us financially. To do so we have to give some concrete figures to >> INRIA and motivate our request. In addition, our team (RMOD) on its own budget will try to compensate by allocating extra resources >> However, this will be only a one shot. In addition, some of our team members have been approached by google to work on chrome and dart >> Virtual Machines. So if we really get a future we should build it now. >> >> Many of you told us that they want to support the consortium, now we need to know what would be amount of membership, sponsoring >> you could give. So please read carefully this mail and send us a mail at stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr with the same subject than this one. >> We will collect the information and build a case to present to INRIA. >> Thanks in advance for Pharo and for the future that we are building together. >> >> The RMOD team and the Pharo board >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org James Robertson http://www.jarober.com jarober(a)gmail.com

July 3, 2012

Re: [Esug-list] **IMPORTANT** MUST READ: Pharo Association and Consortium

by Stéphane Ducasse

thanks On Jul 1, 2012, at 6:43 PM, John O'Keefe wrote: > Stéphane - > > I will take a personal Association Gold membership when they are offered. > > John O'Keefe [|], CTO/Principal Smalltalk Architect, Instantiations Inc. > Skype: john_okeefe2 Mobile: +1 919 417-3181 (Business hours USA > Eastern Time zone (GMT -5)) > john_okeefe(a)instantiations.com > http://www.instantiations.com > VA Smalltalk...Onward and Upward! > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

July 3, 2012