May 2011 - Esug-list - lists.esug.org

Re: [Esug-list] [ANN] SmallHarbour project

by Dale Henrichs

On 05/17/2011 12:37 PM, Davorin Rusevljan wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:19 PM, laurent laffont > <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Actually we have several visions (nothing is final here, ideas welcome) > .. > > Having Amazon ec2 image is also a very good idea, and some > Smalltalkers have already made first important steps like: > > http://www.nickager.com/blog/Create-a-free-Gemstone-server-in-the-cloud-in-… > > You probably already have enough on your plate, but I mentioned > CloudFoundry for following reasons: > - it has a promise that one would be able to deploy SmallHarbour to > different cloud providers > - CloudFoundry currently provides support for Java, Ruby and > Javascript, adding Smalltalk would be nice for visibility, and could > be used for other Smalltalk services not only SmallHarbour. > > As I said you probably have enough to do in the first place, but if > you just happen to have some student lurking that has some ruby > knowledge to hack the interface for Smalltalk to Cloudfoundry it would > be very nice to have :) > > As for your other goals - great! > > Davorin Rusevljan > http://www.cloud208.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org Laurent/Davorin, We are in the process of adding support for deploying GLASS applications into the Cloud Foundry, but I wouldn't mind helping folks who are interested in adding support for other Smalltalks into the Cloud Foundry ... The Cloud Foundry is written largely in ruby, so you'll need to be wearing your ruby dancing shoes:) Dale

May 17, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] [ANN] SmallHarbour project

by laurent laffont

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:37 PM, Davorin Rusevljan < davorin.rusevljan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:19 PM, laurent laffont > <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Actually we have several visions (nothing is final here, ideas welcome) > .. > > Having Amazon ec2 image is also a very good idea, and some > Smalltalkers have already made first important steps like: > > > http://www.nickager.com/blog/Create-a-free-Gemstone-server-in-the-cloud-in-… > > You probably already have enough on your plate, but I mentioned > CloudFoundry for following reasons: > - it has a promise that one would be able to deploy SmallHarbour to > different cloud providers > - CloudFoundry currently provides support for Java, Ruby and > Javascript, adding Smalltalk would be nice for visibility, and could > be used for other Smalltalk services not only SmallHarbour. > > As I said you probably have enough to do in the first place, but if > you just happen to have some student lurking that has some ruby > knowledge to hack the interface for Smalltalk to Cloudfoundry it would > be very nice to have :) > Yes. Indeed I would like contributing to SmallHarbour to be easy. So Cloundfoundry should be one (worthwhile) among several ways to deploy SmallHarbour platform. Laurent Laffont - @lolgzs <http://twitter.com/#!/lolgzs> Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ Developer group: http://cara74.seasidehosting.st > > As for your other goals - great! > > Davorin Rusevljan > http://www.cloud208.com/ >

May 17, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] [ANN] SmallHarbour project

by laurent laffont

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:43 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:41 PM, laurent laffont < > laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < >> marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Laurent. You should take a look to GLASS applicance. >>> It is similar to what you want. You can take ideas from there. >>> >> >> Yes, good idea to have a look. >> >> I actually wonder which database support should come out of the box. >> >> > Do it directly on top of Glass and you already have a lot of things for > free, included that question ;) > I would like all the stack to be open source. Gemstone isn't ? Laurent. > You only need to implement the logistic for the app (kind of > seasidehosting). > > >> Laurent. >> >> >> >>> BTW, cool project and congrats! >>> >>> mariano >>> >>> >>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:19 PM, laurent laffont < >>> laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Davorin Rusevljan < >>>> davorin.rusevljan(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Interesting! >>>>> >>>>> Have you maybe considered to base it on the cloud foundry? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Actually we have several visions (nothing is final here, ideas welcome) >>>> >>>> 1/ SmallHarbour platform is meant to be a base for YOUR own hosting >>>> platform, like your own seaside hosting. So whether you put it on the cloud >>>> or on a real server should be a preference. >>>> >>>> Actually we don't have any experience with cloud, so help will be >>>> appreciated. >>>> >>>> We plan to have a virtual appliance based on virtual box / vmware /.... >>>> for an easy setup. Amazon VMI image should be a good idea too (we have to >>>> learn). >>>> >>>> For example: >>>> a / I work in an enterprise, I want to easily deploy Smalltalk web >>>> applications / tools on intranet for my co-workers and I don't want to spend >>>> time on setting up servers, apache, ...... So I could just get the >>>> appliance, start it and I'm ready to deploy several images. >>>> >>>> b / I want to set up a unique VPS (or cloud platform) to deploy several >>>> Smalltalk web apps / sites. I could just put my preferred Linux distro, then >>>> >>>> apt-get install smallharbour / pacman -s smallharbour / .... >>>> >>>> /etc/rc.d/smallharbour start >>>> >>>> and let's go ! >>>> >>>> >>>> 2/ SmallHarbour hosting service which be like SeasideHosting, but for >>>> commercial purposes. So you should create an account, pay a monthly / yearly >>>> fee related to the service you want, then either >>>> >>>> a/ upload your own image (like you do for SeasideHosting) if you're a >>>> power user >>>> >>>> b/ one-click deploy of pre-made image if you just want to setup a CMS, >>>> blog, write a new book, event planing, ... Pre-made images should be updated >>>> easily. >>>> >>>> >>>> 3/ People who need scalability, performance, deep customization don't >>>> need SmallHarbour :) >>>> >>>> >>>> Laurent >>>> >>>> Davorin Rusevljan >>>>> http://www.cloud208.com/ >>>>> >>>>> On May 17, 2011 6:26 PM, "laurent laffont" <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Bernat Romagosa < >>>>> tibabenfortlapalanca(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > Just a ... >>>>> >>>>> Yes, that's why we haven't called it SeasideSomething. >>>>> >>>>> We want the project to be open and support several web frameworks. We >>>>> will start with Seaside though. >>>>> >>>>> Laurent. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > 2011/5/17 Romain Verduci <contact(a)romain-verduci.com> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> We actually have www.seasideho... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > >

May 17, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] [ANN] SmallHarbour project

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:41 PM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com>wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < > marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Laurent. You should take a look to GLASS applicance. >> It is similar to what you want. You can take ideas from there. >> > > Yes, good idea to have a look. > > I actually wonder which database support should come out of the box. > > Do it directly on top of Glass and you already have a lot of things for free, included that question ;) You only need to implement the logistic for the app (kind of seasidehosting). > Laurent. > > > >> BTW, cool project and congrats! >> >> mariano >> >> >> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:19 PM, laurent laffont < >> laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Davorin Rusevljan < >>> davorin.rusevljan(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Interesting! >>>> >>>> Have you maybe considered to base it on the cloud foundry? >>>> >>> >>> Actually we have several visions (nothing is final here, ideas welcome) >>> >>> 1/ SmallHarbour platform is meant to be a base for YOUR own hosting >>> platform, like your own seaside hosting. So whether you put it on the cloud >>> or on a real server should be a preference. >>> >>> Actually we don't have any experience with cloud, so help will be >>> appreciated. >>> >>> We plan to have a virtual appliance based on virtual box / vmware /.... >>> for an easy setup. Amazon VMI image should be a good idea too (we have to >>> learn). >>> >>> For example: >>> a / I work in an enterprise, I want to easily deploy Smalltalk web >>> applications / tools on intranet for my co-workers and I don't want to spend >>> time on setting up servers, apache, ...... So I could just get the >>> appliance, start it and I'm ready to deploy several images. >>> >>> b / I want to set up a unique VPS (or cloud platform) to deploy several >>> Smalltalk web apps / sites. I could just put my preferred Linux distro, then >>> >>> apt-get install smallharbour / pacman -s smallharbour / .... >>> >>> /etc/rc.d/smallharbour start >>> >>> and let's go ! >>> >>> >>> 2/ SmallHarbour hosting service which be like SeasideHosting, but for >>> commercial purposes. So you should create an account, pay a monthly / yearly >>> fee related to the service you want, then either >>> >>> a/ upload your own image (like you do for SeasideHosting) if you're a >>> power user >>> >>> b/ one-click deploy of pre-made image if you just want to setup a CMS, >>> blog, write a new book, event planing, ... Pre-made images should be updated >>> easily. >>> >>> >>> 3/ People who need scalability, performance, deep customization don't >>> need SmallHarbour :) >>> >>> >>> Laurent >>> >>> Davorin Rusevljan >>>> http://www.cloud208.com/ >>>> >>>> On May 17, 2011 6:26 PM, "laurent laffont" <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Bernat Romagosa < >>>> tibabenfortlapalanca(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Just a ... >>>> >>>> Yes, that's why we haven't called it SeasideSomething. >>>> >>>> We want the project to be open and support several web frameworks. We >>>> will start with Seaside though. >>>> >>>> Laurent. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > 2011/5/17 Romain Verduci <contact(a)romain-verduci.com> >>>> >> >>>> >> We actually have www.seasideho... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Esug-list mailing list >>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> >> > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

May 17, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] [ANN] SmallHarbour project

by laurent laffont

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Laurent. You should take a look to GLASS applicance. > It is similar to what you want. You can take ideas from there. > Yes, good idea to have a look. I actually wonder which database support should come out of the box. Laurent. > BTW, cool project and congrats! > > mariano > > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:19 PM, laurent laffont < > laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Davorin Rusevljan < >> davorin.rusevljan(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Interesting! >>> >>> Have you maybe considered to base it on the cloud foundry? >>> >> >> Actually we have several visions (nothing is final here, ideas welcome) >> >> 1/ SmallHarbour platform is meant to be a base for YOUR own hosting >> platform, like your own seaside hosting. So whether you put it on the cloud >> or on a real server should be a preference. >> >> Actually we don't have any experience with cloud, so help will be >> appreciated. >> >> We plan to have a virtual appliance based on virtual box / vmware /.... >> for an easy setup. Amazon VMI image should be a good idea too (we have to >> learn). >> >> For example: >> a / I work in an enterprise, I want to easily deploy Smalltalk web >> applications / tools on intranet for my co-workers and I don't want to spend >> time on setting up servers, apache, ...... So I could just get the >> appliance, start it and I'm ready to deploy several images. >> >> b / I want to set up a unique VPS (or cloud platform) to deploy several >> Smalltalk web apps / sites. I could just put my preferred Linux distro, then >> >> apt-get install smallharbour / pacman -s smallharbour / .... >> >> /etc/rc.d/smallharbour start >> >> and let's go ! >> >> >> 2/ SmallHarbour hosting service which be like SeasideHosting, but for >> commercial purposes. So you should create an account, pay a monthly / yearly >> fee related to the service you want, then either >> >> a/ upload your own image (like you do for SeasideHosting) if you're a >> power user >> >> b/ one-click deploy of pre-made image if you just want to setup a CMS, >> blog, write a new book, event planing, ... Pre-made images should be updated >> easily. >> >> >> 3/ People who need scalability, performance, deep customization don't need >> SmallHarbour :) >> >> >> Laurent >> >> Davorin Rusevljan >>> http://www.cloud208.com/ >>> >>> On May 17, 2011 6:26 PM, "laurent laffont" <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Bernat Romagosa < >>> tibabenfortlapalanca(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > Just a ... >>> >>> Yes, that's why we haven't called it SeasideSomething. >>> >>> We want the project to be open and support several web frameworks. We >>> will start with Seaside though. >>> >>> Laurent. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> > >>> > 2011/5/17 Romain Verduci <contact(a)romain-verduci.com> >>> >> >>> >> We actually have www.seasideho... >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Esug-list mailing list >>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > >

May 17, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] [ANN] SmallHarbour project

by Davorin Rusevljan

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:19 PM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Actually we have several visions (nothing is final here, ideas welcome) .. Having Amazon ec2 image is also a very good idea, and some Smalltalkers have already made first important steps like: http://www.nickager.com/blog/Create-a-free-Gemstone-server-in-the-cloud-in-… You probably already have enough on your plate, but I mentioned CloudFoundry for following reasons: - it has a promise that one would be able to deploy SmallHarbour to different cloud providers - CloudFoundry currently provides support for Java, Ruby and Javascript, adding Smalltalk would be nice for visibility, and could be used for other Smalltalk services not only SmallHarbour. As I said you probably have enough to do in the first place, but if you just happen to have some student lurking that has some ruby knowledge to hack the interface for Smalltalk to Cloudfoundry it would be very nice to have :) As for your other goals - great! Davorin Rusevljan http://www.cloud208.com/

May 17, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] [ANN] SmallHarbour project

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi Laurent. You should take a look to GLASS applicance. It is similar to what you want. You can take ideas from there. BTW, cool project and congrats! mariano On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:19 PM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com>wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Davorin Rusevljan < > davorin.rusevljan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Interesting! >> >> Have you maybe considered to base it on the cloud foundry? >> > > Actually we have several visions (nothing is final here, ideas welcome) > > 1/ SmallHarbour platform is meant to be a base for YOUR own hosting > platform, like your own seaside hosting. So whether you put it on the cloud > or on a real server should be a preference. > > Actually we don't have any experience with cloud, so help will be > appreciated. > > We plan to have a virtual appliance based on virtual box / vmware /.... for > an easy setup. Amazon VMI image should be a good idea too (we have to > learn). > > For example: > a / I work in an enterprise, I want to easily deploy Smalltalk web > applications / tools on intranet for my co-workers and I don't want to spend > time on setting up servers, apache, ...... So I could just get the > appliance, start it and I'm ready to deploy several images. > > b / I want to set up a unique VPS (or cloud platform) to deploy several > Smalltalk web apps / sites. I could just put my preferred Linux distro, then > > apt-get install smallharbour / pacman -s smallharbour / .... > > /etc/rc.d/smallharbour start > > and let's go ! > > > 2/ SmallHarbour hosting service which be like SeasideHosting, but for > commercial purposes. So you should create an account, pay a monthly / yearly > fee related to the service you want, then either > > a/ upload your own image (like you do for SeasideHosting) if you're a power > user > > b/ one-click deploy of pre-made image if you just want to setup a CMS, > blog, write a new book, event planing, ... Pre-made images should be updated > easily. > > > 3/ People who need scalability, performance, deep customization don't need > SmallHarbour :) > > > Laurent > > Davorin Rusevljan >> http://www.cloud208.com/ >> >> On May 17, 2011 6:26 PM, "laurent laffont" <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Bernat Romagosa < >> tibabenfortlapalanca(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > Just a ... >> >> Yes, that's why we haven't called it SeasideSomething. >> >> We want the project to be open and support several web frameworks. We will >> start with Seaside though. >> >> Laurent. >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > 2011/5/17 Romain Verduci <contact(a)romain-verduci.com> >> >> >> >> We actually have www.seasideho... >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

May 17, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] [ANN] SmallHarbour project

by laurent laffont

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Davorin Rusevljan < davorin.rusevljan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Interesting! > > Have you maybe considered to base it on the cloud foundry? > Actually we have several visions (nothing is final here, ideas welcome) 1/ SmallHarbour platform is meant to be a base for YOUR own hosting platform, like your own seaside hosting. So whether you put it on the cloud or on a real server should be a preference. Actually we don't have any experience with cloud, so help will be appreciated. We plan to have a virtual appliance based on virtual box / vmware /.... for an easy setup. Amazon VMI image should be a good idea too (we have to learn). For example: a / I work in an enterprise, I want to easily deploy Smalltalk web applications / tools on intranet for my co-workers and I don't want to spend time on setting up servers, apache, ...... So I could just get the appliance, start it and I'm ready to deploy several images. b / I want to set up a unique VPS (or cloud platform) to deploy several Smalltalk web apps / sites. I could just put my preferred Linux distro, then apt-get install smallharbour / pacman -s smallharbour / .... /etc/rc.d/smallharbour start and let's go ! 2/ SmallHarbour hosting service which be like SeasideHosting, but for commercial purposes. So you should create an account, pay a monthly / yearly fee related to the service you want, then either a/ upload your own image (like you do for SeasideHosting) if you're a power user b/ one-click deploy of pre-made image if you just want to setup a CMS, blog, write a new book, event planing, ... Pre-made images should be updated easily. 3/ People who need scalability, performance, deep customization don't need SmallHarbour :) Laurent Davorin Rusevljan > http://www.cloud208.com/ > > On May 17, 2011 6:26 PM, "laurent laffont" <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Bernat Romagosa < > tibabenfortlapalanca(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Just a ... > > Yes, that's why we haven't called it SeasideSomething. > > We want the project to be open and support several web frameworks. We will > start with Seaside though. > > Laurent. > > > > > > > > > > 2011/5/17 Romain Verduci <contact(a)romain-verduci.com> > >> > >> We actually have www.seasideho... > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > >

May 17, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] [ANN] SmallHarbour project

by Davorin Rusevljan

Interesting! Have you maybe considered to base it on the cloud foundry? Davorin Rusevljan http://www.cloud208.com/ On May 17, 2011 6:26 PM, "laurent laffont" <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Bernat Romagosa < tibabenfortlapalanca(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Just a ... Yes, that's why we haven't called it SeasideSomething. We want the project to be open and support several web frameworks. We will start with Seaside though. Laurent. > > > 2011/5/17 Romain Verduci <contact(a)romain-verduci.com> >> >> We actually have www.seasideho... _______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

May 17, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] [ANN] SmallHarbour project

by laurent laffont

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Bernat Romagosa < tibabenfortlapalanca(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Just a short question, will there be support for other frameworks besides > seaside? > Yes, that's why we haven't called it SeasideSomething. We want the project to be open and support several web frameworks. We will start with Seaside though. Laurent. > > 2011/5/17 Romain Verduci <contact(a)romain-verduci.com> > >> We actually have www.seasidehosting.st which can only be used for >> non-commercial applications. >> >> I am Romain Verduci, a french student in Information System (Master >> degree) who likes smalltalk since I have discovered it last year through >> Pharo. >> Today, I participate to weekly coding-dojos with other smalltalk fans ( >> http://cara74.seasidehosting.st/) >> I am lucky to participate to ESUG SummerTalk this year with Laurent >> Laffont as mentor to develop SmallHarbour project. >> >> With the support of ESUG and under the ESUG SummerTalk 2011, we want to >> provide: >> - a simple platform to host commercial smalltalk web applications. >> - an easy way for everyone (and enterprise) to deploy their own hosting >> platform. >> - for the non-smalltalkers, provide ready Pier images to deploy basic >> blogs, event presentations and more. >> >> SmallHarbour has started from the actual Seaside Hosting code base. Our >> first objective is to port it to Pharo / Cog / Seaside 3 and document. >> >> For more informations about the project, you can follow us on >> www.smallharbour.org. >> >> If you have any needs or ideas in order to improve our project vision, we >> will be happy to collect them. We will setup community tools (issue tracker, >> public repositories, doc ....) when the exams period is over :) >> >> Best regards >> >> >> >> Romain Verduci >> Student in Information System (Master degree) - IMUS, IAE Savoie >> Mont-Blanc - Annecy >> >> Tel. : +33659892353 >> Mail : contact(a)romain-verduci.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > >

May 17, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] [Moose-dev] [ANN] Moose Suite 4.4

by Johan Fabry

Excellent! Does it have a ConfigurationOf so that it can be loaded from source? Alternatively, putting just the image online might be a good idea (in addition to the one-click). On 16 May 2011, at 17:23, Tudor Girba wrote: > We are happy to announce the Moose Suite version 4.4: > http://moosetechnology.org/download > > What is new: > • New EyeSee engine for scripting visual charts > • New Kumpel importer for SVN repositories > • New Metanool engine for supporting dynamic annotations of models > • Simplified look and feel > • Improved VerveineJ compatibility for Java parsing > • Improved FAMIX support for Java systems > • Improved support for complex shapes in Mondrian > • Improved RPackage engine support for the Smalltalk importer > > A list of issues addressed in this release can be found at: > http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/issues/list?can=1&q=status=Fixed%… > > Have fun, > The Moose Team > http://moosetechnology.org > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- Johan Fabry jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

May 17, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] [ANN] SmallHarbour project

by Bernat Romagosa

Just a short question, will there be support for other frameworks besides seaside? 2011/5/17 Romain Verduci <contact(a)romain-verduci.com> > We actually have www.seasidehosting.st which can only be used for > non-commercial applications. > > I am Romain Verduci, a french student in Information System (Master degree) > who likes smalltalk since I have discovered it last year through Pharo. > Today, I participate to weekly coding-dojos with other smalltalk fans ( > http://cara74.seasidehosting.st/) > I am lucky to participate to ESUG SummerTalk this year with Laurent Laffont > as mentor to develop SmallHarbour project. > > With the support of ESUG and under the ESUG SummerTalk 2011, we want to > provide: > - a simple platform to host commercial smalltalk web applications. > - an easy way for everyone (and enterprise) to deploy their own hosting > platform. > - for the non-smalltalkers, provide ready Pier images to deploy basic > blogs, event presentations and more. > > SmallHarbour has started from the actual Seaside Hosting code base. Our > first objective is to port it to Pharo / Cog / Seaside 3 and document. > > For more informations about the project, you can follow us on > www.smallharbour.org. > > If you have any needs or ideas in order to improve our project vision, we > will be happy to collect them. We will setup community tools (issue tracker, > public repositories, doc ....) when the exams period is over :) > > Best regards > > > > Romain Verduci > Student in Information System (Master degree) - IMUS, IAE Savoie Mont-Blanc > - Annecy > > Tel. : +33659892353 > Mail : contact(a)romain-verduci.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > >

May 17, 2011

[ANN] SmallHarbour project

by Romain Verduci

We actually have www.seasidehosting.st which can only be used for non-commercial applications. I am Romain Verduci, a french student in Information System (Master degree) who likes smalltalk since I have discovered it last year through Pharo. Today, I participate to weekly coding-dojos with other smalltalk fans (http://cara74.seasidehosting.st/) I am lucky to participate to ESUG SummerTalk this year with Laurent Laffont as mentor to develop SmallHarbour project. With the support of ESUG and under the ESUG SummerTalk 2011, we want to provide: - a simple platform to host commercial smalltalk web applications. - an easy way for everyone (and enterprise) to deploy their own hosting platform. - for the non-smalltalkers, provide ready Pier images to deploy basic blogs, event presentations and more. SmallHarbour has started from the actual Seaside Hosting code base. Our first objective is to port it to Pharo / Cog / Seaside 3 and document. For more informations about the project, you can follow us on www.smallharbour.org. If you have any needs or ideas in order to improve our project vision, we will be happy to collect them. We will setup community tools (issue tracker, public repositories, doc ....) when the exams period is over :) Best regards Romain Verduci Student in Information System (Master degree) - IMUS, IAE Savoie Mont-Blanc - Annecy Tel. : +33659892353 Mail : contact(a)romain-verduci.com

May 17, 2011

[ANN] Moose Suite 4.4

by Tudor Girba

We are happy to announce the Moose Suite version 4.4: http://moosetechnology.org/download What is new: • New EyeSee engine for scripting visual charts • New Kumpel importer for SVN repositories • New Metanool engine for supporting dynamic annotations of models • Simplified look and feel • Improved VerveineJ compatibility for Java parsing • Improved FAMIX support for Java systems • Improved support for complex shapes in Mondrian • Improved RPackage engine support for the Smalltalk importer A list of issues addressed in this release can be found at: http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/issues/list?can=1&q=status=Fixed%… Have fun, The Moose Team http://moosetechnology.org

May 16, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] moose = smalltalk ambassador

by Tudor Girba

Hi Nial, On 11 May 2011, at 11:13, Niall Ross wrote: > Dear Tudor, > this is great; this kind of making the outside world aware of Smalltalk is just what we need. :) > Jazoon (http://jazoon.com) is before ESUG 2011 in Edinburgh. I hope you will take the opportunity while there to advertise us. I will try. Cheers, Doru > You can download the conference poster (high-resolution jpeg or pdf) from > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7726739/ESUG_Promo.jpg > or > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7726739/ESUG_Promo.pdf > and the conference flyers from > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7726739/ESUG_Postcard.pdf > and the website is > http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2011 > > I look forward to seeing the latest state of moose in Edinburgh. > Wishing you luck with your conferences > Niall Ross > > Tudor Girba wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Moose (http://moosetechnology.org) is a Smalltalk ambassador. Actually, I think it's the best ambassador we have right now to persuade professional developers to look into Smalltalk. >> >> Let me tell you why. >> >> Moose is a platform for software and data analysis and includes components like: Glamour, Mondrian or PetitParser. Moose solves a real and important problem that developers (both Smalltalkers and non-Smalltalkers) have: how to improve the productivity of the effort spent on assessment. Moose is an innovation in this domain because it enables a completely different approach through which developers craft their own tools fast (http://humane-assessment.com) The cool thing is that they build these tools by programming Smalltalk in Pharo, and thus they get to learn the language and the platform first. >> >> Moose also comes with exposure. For example, this year I will be presenting Moose and humane assessment at some large industry oriented conferences: >> - Jazoon (http://jazoon.com) >> - GotoCon Aarhus (http://gotocon.com/aarhus-2011/) >> - GotoCon Amsterdam (http://gotocon.com/amsterdam-2011/) >> >> All in all, if you want to promote Smalltalk, and Pharo in particular, you might want to look into it. And you are always welcome to contribute, follow us and make noise: >> - http://www.moosetechnology.org >> - http://twitter.com/#!/moosetechnology >> - http://www.facebook.com/pages/moosetechnologyorg/152851281427491 >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "No matter how many recipes we know, we still value a chef." >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. >> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ -- www.tudorgirba.com "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, you will end up with a messy haircut."

May 11, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] moose = smalltalk ambassador

by Niall Ross

Dear Tudor, this is great; this kind of making the outside world aware of Smalltalk is just what we need. Jazoon (http://jazoon.com) is before ESUG 2011 in Edinburgh. I hope you will take the opportunity while there to advertise us. You can download the conference poster (high-resolution jpeg or pdf) from http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7726739/ESUG_Promo.jpg or http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7726739/ESUG_Promo.pdf and the conference flyers from http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7726739/ESUG_Postcard.pdf and the website is http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2011 I look forward to seeing the latest state of moose in Edinburgh. Wishing you luck with your conferences Niall Ross Tudor Girba wrote: >Hi, > >Moose (http://moosetechnology.org) is a Smalltalk ambassador. Actually, I think it's the best ambassador we have right now to persuade professional developers to look into Smalltalk. > >Let me tell you why. > >Moose is a platform for software and data analysis and includes components like: Glamour, Mondrian or PetitParser. Moose solves a real and important problem that developers (both Smalltalkers and non-Smalltalkers) have: how to improve the productivity of the effort spent on assessment. Moose is an innovation in this domain because it enables a completely different approach through which developers craft their own tools fast (http://humane-assessment.com) The cool thing is that they build these tools by programming Smalltalk in Pharo, and thus they get to learn the language and the platform first. > >Moose also comes with exposure. For example, this year I will be presenting Moose and humane assessment at some large industry oriented conferences: >- Jazoon (http://jazoon.com) >- GotoCon Aarhus (http://gotocon.com/aarhus-2011/) >- GotoCon Amsterdam (http://gotocon.com/amsterdam-2011/) > >All in all, if you want to promote Smalltalk, and Pharo in particular, you might want to look into it. And you are always welcome to contribute, follow us and make noise: >- http://www.moosetechnology.org >- http://twitter.com/#!/moosetechnology >- http://www.facebook.com/pages/moosetechnologyorg/152851281427491 > >Cheers, >Doru > > >-- >www.tudorgirba.com > >"No matter how many recipes we know, we still value a chef." > >_______________________________________________ >Esug-list mailing list >Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > >______________________________________________________________________ >This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. >For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email >______________________________________________________________________ > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

May 11, 2011

moose = smalltalk ambassador

by Tudor Girba

Hi, Moose (http://moosetechnology.org) is a Smalltalk ambassador. Actually, I think it's the best ambassador we have right now to persuade professional developers to look into Smalltalk. Let me tell you why. Moose is a platform for software and data analysis and includes components like: Glamour, Mondrian or PetitParser. Moose solves a real and important problem that developers (both Smalltalkers and non-Smalltalkers) have: how to improve the productivity of the effort spent on assessment. Moose is an innovation in this domain because it enables a completely different approach through which developers craft their own tools fast (http://humane-assessment.com) The cool thing is that they build these tools by programming Smalltalk in Pharo, and thus they get to learn the language and the platform first. Moose also comes with exposure. For example, this year I will be presenting Moose and humane assessment at some large industry oriented conferences: - Jazoon (http://jazoon.com) - GotoCon Aarhus (http://gotocon.com/aarhus-2011/) - GotoCon Amsterdam (http://gotocon.com/amsterdam-2011/) All in all, if you want to promote Smalltalk, and Pharo in particular, you might want to look into it. And you are always welcome to contribute, follow us and make noise: - http://www.moosetechnology.org - http://twitter.com/#!/moosetechnology - http://www.facebook.com/pages/moosetechnologyorg/152851281427491 Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com "No matter how many recipes we know, we still value a chef."

May 10, 2011

job opportunity

by David West

My apologies for the short lead time, but I need a person that is very conversant with Squeak-Seaside-Pharo-Pier-GLASS plus an interest and ability to quickly learn and mentor others in web-mobile languages and tools. Will be working with English speakers, so facility in that language is essential. The person must be able to be in New Mexico, US, from May 23 to July 29. You will be working 6-8 hours a day, Monday through Thursday - teaching, mentoring, developing projects (list below) and overseeing my software Studio when I am in London Jun 4-19. Compensation: Approximately $10K USD plus health benefits for the two-months. If you like the work and are good at it, the position can be converted to a one-year, renewable annually, as a visiting professor (at least a Masters degree is required). The annual salary will be approximated $60K USD plus benefits. An ownership interest in the products being developed is also available - as a supplement to the academic salary. Applications we will be working on, priority order -- technology: 1) iPad app for the Bradbury Museum at Los Alamos National Labs -- XCode - cocoa based framework 2) an outcomes assessment app for Highlands University -- Web ecology (HTML, CSS, PHP, MySQL, Javascript) 3) itsYourRep - an achievement profile / portfolio Web App - very similar to #2 -- GLASS 4) confirmOwnership - for paying client, tracks ownership interests in investments, etc. -- Seaside or GLASS 5) ambientAgile -- an app using cameras and projectors to create a distributed 'agile wall' -- not sure, start with Squeak-Seaside 6) Web-based subset of Behavior! Seaside or GLASS 7) Infrastructure for Software Design Studios - content management plus Web presence - Seaside / Pier / GLASS I must find a person very quickly, so if you are interested, please email me and we can arrange a phone call to discuss the opportunity. David West New Mexico Highlands University dmwest(a)nmhu.edu profwest(a)fastmail.fm 01-505-231-7233

May 7, 2011

[[ UK Smalltalk User Group ]] Notice: uksmalltalk.org domain migration

by gcorriga

We're in the process of migrating uksmalltalk.org to a new domain registrar and DNS provider. As a side effect, you can experience some problems in accessing the website, the syndication feed, and/or the public event calendar. The migration will be completed in the next few days. We apologize for the disruption. -- Posted By gcorriga to [ UK Smalltalk User Group ] on 5/07/2011 01:25:00 PM

May 7, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Instantiations forum moved to forum.world.st!

by Janko Mivšek

That's indeed very good news, thanks Geert! Now Dolphin and Smalltalk/X .. then we are complete! :) Janko On 06. 05. 2011 16:01, Geert Claes wrote: > I am happy to announce that Instantions' forum has joined all the other > forums on http://forum.world.st forum.world.st and is now available at > http://forum.world.st/Instantiations-f3404935.html > forum.world.st/Instantiations-f3404935.html > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Instantiations-forum-moved-to-forum-world-st-tp350289… > Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

May 6, 2011

Instantiations forum moved to forum.world.st!

by Geert Claes

I am happy to announce that Instantions' forum has joined all the other forums on http://forum.world.st forum.world.st and is now available at http://forum.world.st/Instantiations-f3404935.html forum.world.st/Instantiations-f3404935.html -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Instantiations-forum-moved-to-forum-world-st-tp350289… Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

May 6, 2011

Fwd: [Pharo-users] [ANN] PHANtom: A modern Aspect Language for Pharo

by Johan Fabry

I'm forwarding this here as there may be Pharo users that are not in pharo-users or pharo-devel. Apologies for multiple reception ... Begin forwarded message: > From: Lemuus <lemuus(a)gmail.com> > Date: 4 May 2011 11:32:16 GMT-04:00 > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr, A friendly place where any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Subject: [Pharo-users] [ANN] PHANtom: A modern Aspect Language for Pharo > Reply-To: A friendly place where any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > > Hello all, > > We are happy to announce the release of PHANtom: a modern aspect language for Pharo. > > PHANtom was built taking into account recent advances in aspect language features such as dynamic advice rescheduling, reentrancy management, and scoping strategies for deployment. The advanced features are not all implemented yet, but the 'normal' features work and are well-tested (about 130 unit tests) so we are relasing it to the world for you to try out. We hope PHANtom can help you to solve some cross-cutting code problems. > > An overview of the language can be found at http://pleiad.cl/PHANtom Please try it out, see if it works for you, all your comments are welcome! > > More details: > > I am doing this as my engineering thesis, under the guidance of Prof. Johan Fabry. > > PHANtom works in Pharo 1.2.1 and in 1.3, and also in PharoCore. > > Right now, PHANtom uses Method Wrappers in its' implementation, just like the AspectS language did. But the plan is once we have all features implemented, that we will start compiling using the Opal compiler of Pharo, to make everything go faster. > > I just put one example from the website here so you can see what it looks like: > > asp := PhAspect new > add: (PhAdvice new > pointcut: (PhPointcut new > receivers: 'SystemWindow+'; > selectors: 'position:'; > context: #(#receiver #arguments)); > advice: [:context | > Transcript show: context receiver. > Transcript show: ' moved to: '. > Transcript show: context arguments; cr.]; > type: #after). > asp install. > > Note: the unit tests of pointcuts take a large amount of time to execute, as some of them match on everything in the image. > > For more info and how to download PHANtom see http://pleiad.cl/PHANtom -- Johan Fabry jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

May 4, 2011

Fwd: [smalltalkindia] Smalltalk Trainer Required

by Serge Stinckwich

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: skrishnamachari <skrishnamachari(a)yahoo.com> Date: Wed, May 4, 2011 at 7:40 PM Subject: [smalltalkindia] Smalltalk Trainer Required To: smalltalkindia(a)yahoogroups.com Required for intensive 2 week training. Can discuss how/ what of the training module. Needs to be intensive and thorough Smalltalk specifically on VisualAge covering: 1. Core ANSI Smalltalk 2. SUnits 4.0 preferably 3. Composition Editor /GUI construction and framework in depth 4. Metaprogramming in Smalltalk 5. Frameworks of XML Parsing, TCP-IP.. 6. DLL / Native Platform function invocation Hands on training and intensive project works through the training period. -Skrish __._,_.___ Reply to sender<skrishnamachari(a)yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20Smalltalk%20Trainer%20Required>| Reply to group<smalltalkindia(a)yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Smalltalk%20Trainer%20Required>| Reply via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smalltalkindia/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJvcXJ1MHY2BF9T…>| Start a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smalltalkindia/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOWFwaDBmBF9T…> Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smalltalkindia/message/747;_ylc=X3oDMTMyZTBoc…>( 1) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smalltalkindia;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMHIzczloBF9TAzk3M…> Check www.geocities.com/smalltalkindia for updates. MARKETPLACE Find useful articles and helpful tips on living with Fibromyalgia. Visit the Fibromyalgia Zone today!<http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15o86etgg/M=493064.14543977.14365476.108355…> ------------------------------ Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.<http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15o69q5p0/M=493064.14543979.14365478.132984…> [image: Yahoo! Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkcnZ1ZjQ1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg5N…> Switch to: Text-Only<smalltalkindia-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>, Daily Digest<smalltalkindia-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest>• Unsubscribe <smalltalkindia-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>• Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . __,_._,___ -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/

May 4, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Schools, Colleges, Universities ...

by Noury Bouraqadi

I forgot to mention that in our university, since several years (5 or 6 I can't rember) we are proud to have a Smalltalker as a member of our steering committee as a representative of the software industry. And guess who is this Smalltalker : Georg Heeg (founder of Heeg e.k and STIC Executive Director) :-) BTW, I started teaching Smalltalk in Ecole des Mines de Douai since 2003 (I taught it elsewhere before). And my research is in Smalltalk since 1995 :-) Noury On 3 mai 2011, at 15:16, Noury Bouraqadi wrote: > Hi Geert, > > Luc and I do teach Smalltalk in our university (Ecole des Mines de Douai, http://www.mines-douai.fr) > We do use Pharo. > > We're located in the city of Douai in the north of France (30 km from Lille). > So, Stéf is also contributing to our Smalltalk courses :-) > > Noury > http://car.mines-douai.fr/noury > -- > > On 2 mai 2011, at 09:55, Geert Claes wrote: > >> Hi all, I am trying to put together an up-to-date list of schools, colleges >> or universities that are currently teaching Smalltalk. >> >> The statistics from world.st (topped by Montevideo, Uruguay) and >> forum.world.st (Ankara, Turkey being the one leading the list) did reveal >> some interesting information which could help ESUG to target their promotion >> efforts. >> >> Looking forwards seeing replies of any academic organisations promoting >> Smalltalk (contact persons?) >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Schools-Colleges-Universities-tp3489490p3489490.html >> Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > > > Noury Bouraqadi http://car.mines-douai.fr/noury -- -6th National Conference on “Control Architecture of Robots” 24-25 may 2011, Grenoble area, France http://car2011.inrialpes.fr/ -19th ESUG International Smalltalk Conference 22-26 August 2011, Edinburgh, UK http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2011 -19èmes Journées Francophones sur les Systèmes Multi-Agents (JFSMA’11) http://www.univ-valenciennes.fr/congres/jfsma2011/ 17-19 Octobre 2011, Valenciennes, France

May 3, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Schools, Colleges, Universities ...

by Noury Bouraqadi

Hi Geert, Luc and I do teach Smalltalk in our university (Ecole des Mines de Douai, http://www.mines-douai.fr) We do use Pharo. We're located in the city of Douai in the north of France (30 km from Lille). So, Stéf is also contributing to our Smalltalk courses :-) Noury http://car.mines-douai.fr/noury -- On 2 mai 2011, at 09:55, Geert Claes wrote: > Hi all, I am trying to put together an up-to-date list of schools, colleges > or universities that are currently teaching Smalltalk. > > The statistics from world.st (topped by Montevideo, Uruguay) and > forum.world.st (Ankara, Turkey being the one leading the list) did reveal > some interesting information which could help ESUG to target their promotion > efforts. > > Looking forwards seeing replies of any academic organisations promoting > Smalltalk (contact persons?) > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Schools-Colleges-Universities-tp3489490p3489490.html > Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

May 3, 2011