March 2011 - Esug-list - lists.esug.org

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by Joachim Tuchel

Hi, maybe that's an idea for GSoC? Joachim Am 20.03.11 09:35, schrieb Tudor Girba: > I believe that Alex wanted to say that the basic functionalities should be so self evident that they should not need documentation. > > Regarding Pier, Lukas did an excellent job of building a content management system for programmers. You would not say about Seaside for example that it is bad because you cannot program it with drag and drop. It is the same for Pier. The main focus was to get it beautiful from a model point of view. > > To add a user-friendly interface on top of it would require an explicit and new project on top of Pier. The infrastructure is there and is powerful. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On 19 Mar 2011, at 21:48, Sean Allen wrote: > >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel<abergel(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: >>>> 2) Yes. I have used and ported Pier, and presented it to non-Smalltalkers, and I have noticed that very small how-to or clarification things could delay me and would undoubtedly affect a non-Smalltalk user. (Some of it was just order of presentation - the how-to's that a non-Smalltalker wants first are not too hard to find - if you're a Smalltalker and so can guess where to look.) It would be good to watch people starting to use Smalltalk's 'best-practice' web suite and see what's slowing them. >>> >>> There is no need of how-to's for Pier for basic usage (e.g., editing pages, adding menus, doing internal links, adding users). It is wrong to think this is necessary. I have never read the documentation of SimpleCMS, simply there isn't and there is no need to. >>> >> >> You are apparently much smarter than I. I struggled mightly w/ getting >> going with Pier and finally gave up and moved on to other things. >> I doubt I'm an outlier on that. I'd love if there was much better >> documentation but, I'm definitely not the person to do it as I still >> don't really >> get how to work with Pier. It is very non-intuitive for me. >> >> Even if it is dirt simple to use, people are going to look at recipes, >> how-tos and general documentation when picking a CMS. >> Most people pick a CMS to make things easier not because they think 'o >> i really want to use X language'. >> >> -Sean- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de D-71640 Ludwigsburg Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1

March 20, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by Tudor Girba

I believe that Alex wanted to say that the basic functionalities should be so self evident that they should not need documentation. Regarding Pier, Lukas did an excellent job of building a content management system for programmers. You would not say about Seaside for example that it is bad because you cannot program it with drag and drop. It is the same for Pier. The main focus was to get it beautiful from a model point of view. To add a user-friendly interface on top of it would require an explicit and new project on top of Pier. The infrastructure is there and is powerful. Cheers, Doru On 19 Mar 2011, at 21:48, Sean Allen wrote: > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel <abergel(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: >>> 2) Yes. I have used and ported Pier, and presented it to non-Smalltalkers, and I have noticed that very small how-to or clarification things could delay me and would undoubtedly affect a non-Smalltalk user. (Some of it was just order of presentation - the how-to's that a non-Smalltalker wants first are not too hard to find - if you're a Smalltalker and so can guess where to look.) It would be good to watch people starting to use Smalltalk's 'best-practice' web suite and see what's slowing them. >> >> There is no need of how-to's for Pier for basic usage (e.g., editing pages, adding menus, doing internal links, adding users). It is wrong to think this is necessary. I have never read the documentation of SimpleCMS, simply there isn't and there is no need to. >> > > You are apparently much smarter than I. I struggled mightly w/ getting > going with Pier and finally gave up and moved on to other things. > I doubt I'm an outlier on that. I'd love if there was much better > documentation but, I'm definitely not the person to do it as I still > don't really > get how to work with Pier. It is very non-intuitive for me. > > Even if it is dirt simple to use, people are going to look at recipes, > how-tos and general documentation when picking a CMS. > Most people pick a CMS to make things easier not because they think 'o > i really want to use X language'. > > -Sean- > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org -- www.tudorgirba.com "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."

March 20, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by HwaJongOh

That's why I like Wki Server of MacOSX. It requires no syntax to learn. It simply works, with a little limitations. :-) Balance between power and easiness is key to a software's success. 2011. 3. 20., 아침 5:48, Sean Allen 작성: > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel <abergel(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: >>> 2) Yes. I have used and ported Pier, and presented it to non-Smalltalkers, and I have noticed that very small how-to or clarification things could delay me and would undoubtedly affect a non-Smalltalk user. (Some of it was just order of presentation - the how-to's that a non-Smalltalker wants first are not too hard to find - if you're a Smalltalker and so can guess where to look.) It would be good to watch people starting to use Smalltalk's 'best-practice' web suite and see what's slowing them. >> >> There is no need of how-to's for Pier for basic usage (e.g., editing pages, adding menus, doing internal links, adding users). It is wrong to think this is necessary. I have never read the documentation of SimpleCMS, simply there isn't and there is no need to. >> > > You are apparently much smarter than I. I struggled mightly w/ getting > going with Pier and finally gave up and moved on to other things. > I doubt I'm an outlier on that. I'd love if there was much better > documentation but, I'm definitely not the person to do it as I still > don't really > get how to work with Pier. It is very non-intuitive for me. > > Even if it is dirt simple to use, people are going to look at recipes, > how-tos and general documentation when picking a CMS. > Most people pick a CMS to make things easier not because they think 'o > i really want to use X language'. > > -Sean- > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

March 20, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by Sean Allen

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel <abergel(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: >> 2) Yes. I have used and ported Pier, and presented it to non-Smalltalkers, and I have noticed that very small how-to or clarification things could delay me and would undoubtedly affect a non-Smalltalk user. (Some of it was just order of presentation - the how-to's that a non-Smalltalker wants first are not too hard to find - if you're a Smalltalker and so can guess where to look.) It would be good to watch people starting to use Smalltalk's 'best-practice' web suite and see what's slowing them. > > There is no need of how-to's for Pier for basic usage (e.g., editing pages, adding menus, doing internal links, adding users). It is wrong to think this is necessary. I have never read the documentation of SimpleCMS, simply there isn't and there is no need to. > You are apparently much smarter than I. I struggled mightly w/ getting going with Pier and finally gave up and moved on to other things. I doubt I'm an outlier on that. I'd love if there was much better documentation but, I'm definitely not the person to do it as I still don't really get how to work with Pier. It is very non-intuitive for me. Even if it is dirt simple to use, people are going to look at recipes, how-tos and general documentation when picking a CMS. Most people pick a CMS to make things easier not because they think 'o i really want to use X language'. -Sean-

March 19, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Josef Springer <Josef.Springer(a)joops.com>wrote: > Hello, > > would it not a good idea, to buld a central register of productive > Smalltalk applications, to show the world about. > Because not only developers can win with Smalltalk... > http://www.world.st/ ?? > > Josef Springer > > > James Robertson wrote: > > Well :) > > I've been promoting Smalltalk for years, and lately, I've been promoting all dialects using > > -- my blog > -- screencasts > -- podcasts > > I'd be happy to do more, but my personal budget doesn't allow for much more :) > > > On Mar 17, 2011, at 8:18 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > > > > Hi guys > > Where were you? > Where are your bogs, books, videos, and cool Smalltalk open source projects? > I mean that this is easy to get frustrated but it is possible to do things: > - I wrote Squeak by Example not for me but for newcomers > - We are writing Pharo by example two for the same. > - I wrote the Seaside book because it was important for other people (and because avi was not writing one) > - we are pushing pharo because we want to create a good open-source smalltalk. > > I came to smalltalk in 1996 when everybody left and I decided to do something. Now this is not enough but I'm not frustrated > and we are creating good energy. If people really want they can join and help or get frustrated. > > Stef > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing listEsug-list@lists.esug.orghttp://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > James Robertsonhttp://www.jarober.comjarober@gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing listEsug-list@lists.esug.orghttp://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > >

March 19, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk Solutions Las Vegas 2011 - The Business Conference is over

by Geert Claes

Thanks Georg, Can you let us know when the slides and videos are posted on the stic website? -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-Solutions-Las-Vegas-2011-The-Business-Confe… Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

March 18, 2011

Smalltalk Solutions Las Vegas 2011 - The Business Conference is over

by Georg Heeg

All, Smalltalk Solutions 2011 is over. It has been a great conference. The mood among Smalltalkers was great. There is really interesting new stuff going on in various places. For those who attended and want to recap what they had heard, and for those who could not make it we are currently preparing slides and videos to become available on our web site www.stic.st. Currently we are collecting comments about * What worked? * What did not work? * What do you want to see at next conference? * Location requests * Time of the year Please send your comments to stic_management(a)stic.st, preferably within the next two weeks. Thanks to all who made this conference a great success: the sponsors Cincom, Instantiations, GemStone, and Precision, the speakers, and all the attendees! Georg Heeg STIC - Smalltalk Industry Council Executive Director Phone +49-3496-214328, Fax +49-3496-214712

March 17, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by HwaJongOh

I myself have made an trial and error(ugly & beauty) screencast of using Pharo for Riak. ==> http://appdal.com/groups/36442/wiki/be0d1/Riak_Interface_for_Pharo_Smalltal… 2011. 3. 17., 저녁 10:56, James Robertson 작성: > Well :) > > I've been promoting Smalltalk for years, and lately, I've been promoting all dialects using > > -- my blog > -- screencasts > -- podcasts > > I'd be happy to do more, but my personal budget doesn't allow for much more :) > > > On Mar 17, 2011, at 8:18 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> Where were you? >> Where are your bogs, books, videos, and cool Smalltalk open source projects? >> I mean that this is easy to get frustrated but it is possible to do things: >> - I wrote Squeak by Example not for me but for newcomers >> - We are writing Pharo by example two for the same. >> - I wrote the Seaside book because it was important for other people (and because avi was not writing one) >> - we are pushing pharo because we want to create a good open-source smalltalk. >> >> I came to smalltalk in 1996 when everybody left and I decided to do something. Now this is not enough but I'm not frustrated >> and we are creating good energy. If people really want they can join and help or get frustrated. >> >> Stef >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > James Robertson > http://www.jarober.com > jarober(a)gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

March 17, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by Davorin Rusevljan

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 3:11 PM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I like what you do James. We need more people do a fraction of what you do ! > Laurent. even aside of writing our own blog posts (which should do), just commenting on other peoples blogs, tweeting and buzzing about them can be of help. davorin rusevljan http://www.cloud208.com/

March 17, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...

by Josef Springer

Hello, would it not a good idea, to buld a central register of productive Smalltalk applications, to show the world about. Because not only developers can win with Smalltalk... Josef Springer James Robertson wrote: > Well :) > > I've been promoting Smalltalk for years, and lately, I've been promoting all dialects using > > -- my blog > -- screencasts > -- podcasts > > I'd be happy to do more, but my personal budget doesn't allow for much more :) > > > On Mar 17, 2011, at 8:18 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > > >> Hi guys >> >> Where were you? >> Where are your bogs, books, videos, and cool Smalltalk open source projects? >> I mean that this is easy to get frustrated but it is possible to do things: >> - I wrote Squeak by Example not for me but for newcomers >> - We are writing Pharo by example two for the same. >> - I wrote the Seaside book because it was important for other people (and because avi was not writing one) >> - we are pushing pharo because we want to create a good open-source smalltalk. >> >> I came to smalltalk in 1996 when everybody left and I decided to do something. Now this is not enough but I'm not frustrated >> and we are creating good energy. If people really want they can join and help or get frustrated. >> >> Stef >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >> > > James Robertson > http://www.jarober.com > jarober(a)gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > >

March 17, 2011