November 2011 - Esug-list - lists.esug.org

Re: [Esug-list] Antwort: Call for your input on questions you ask yourselves during merge

by Andy Kellens

Hello, Already many thanks for all the input we received. As a way to stimulate the discussion a bit, you can find my list of questions below. * Who made the changes? * How big are the changes? Are they local or do they touch a lot of stuff? * Was this method changed a lot of times in the past? Why did it change? (I noticed in my projects stuff that keeps on changing most of the times indicates that something is not really right in the design) * Is this change part of a whole series of changes? (when someone is working on a feature and commits intermittently, I sometimes prefer to wait loading their changes until I know they are done) * Why were the changes made? Bugfix? New feature? Refactoring? Cleanup? * Who wrote the original code that was changed? Was any of my old code changed? * Is the commit coherent? Do all the changes within the commit belong together or are they unrelated? (This also happens often I think: someone fixes a bug and decides to also rename a method or clean something up … very annoying to find out what really happened) * Is this change impacted/influenced by a change that happened in another branch of my software? * Did this change ever happen before? * Is this change reverting the code to an old state? (someone changes some code to actually roll back something; would like to know this since it might be by accident) * Did the person who made the change also update the tests? Was this necessary? * If I just load the change, what are the changes that it breaks my current system? * When multiple packages were committed at the same time: do I really need to load all of them now, or can I just load/merge with the version of the package I'm working on? Kind regards, Andy On 26 Nov 2011, at 08:56, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > tx :) > > On Nov 24, 2011, at 1:38 PM, Thorsten.Seitz(a)deutschebahn.com wrote: > >> - When the version to be merged into the trunk is on a branch which I >> already did merge a couple of versions earlier I want to have to see/think >> about only those changes that are new (i.e. the changes between the version >> last merged and the current version to be merged and not all changes >> between the current version to be merged and the trunk version to be merged >> into) >> >> e.g. >> >> 1.0 -> 2.0 -> 3.0 -> 4.0 -> 5.0 -> 6.0 -> 7.0 Trunk >> \ / / ?? questions asked here >> \ / / >> -> 2.1 -> 2.2 -> 2.3 -> 2.4 Branch >> >> The branch version 2.2 has already been merged into trunk version 5.0 some >> time earlier. >> Therefore I'd like to merge only the changes between 2.2 and 2.4 into 7.0. >> I don't know what Pharo does but VisualWorksdisplays all changes between >> 2.4 and 7.0 while giving additional information about the last common >> version which is determined to be 2.0 because previous merges are not >> considered. >> This forces me to think about how to merge all changes up to version 2.2 >> once again. >> We fixed that in our tools, of course (in VW 7.6), offering an additional >> merge option which only merges the changes since a user selected common >> version. >> >> Regards >> Thorsten >> >> >> Thorsten Seitz >> Development Center Architekturkonzeption und -entwicklung (T.SVD 32) >> >> DB Systel GmbH >> Raum 5C.136, Alfred-Herrhausen-Allee 1, 65760 Eschborn >> Tel. 069 265-48245, intern 955- >> _________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> Der DB-Konzern im Internet >> http://www.deutschebahn.com >> >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Frankfurt am Main >> Registergericht: Frankfurt am Main, HRB 78707 >> USt-IdNr.: DE252204770 >> Geschäftsführer: Detlef Exner (Vorsitzender), Dr. Burkhard Klanke, Dr. >> Klaus Rüffler >> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Dr. Rolf Kranüchel >> >> >> |------------> >> | Von: | >> |------------> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> |Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> | >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> |------------> >> | An: | >> |------------> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> |ESUG Members <esug-list(a)lists.esug.org> | >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> |------------> >> | Datum: | >> |------------> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> |23.11.2011 16:58 | >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> |------------> >> | Betreff: | >> |------------> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> |[Esug-list] Call for your input on questions you ask yourselves during merge | >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> |------------> >> | Gesendet | >> | von: | >> |------------> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> |esug-list-bounces(a)lists.esug.org | >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi guys >> >> We are writing some articles on the work of veronica to support merging >> activities. We need your input great smalltalk community :) >> What are the questions that you ask yourselves when you are/want to merge >> some code in your project? >> We would like to do a compilation of questions and also evaluate how the >> solution of veronica solves them or part of them. >> >> Here are some typical questions we asked ourselves. >> - What other changes did this change require? >> - Can I integrate this change right now? >> - How large it is? >> - Who made it? >> - Is it still valid (when I'm working on an old change)? >> - Is this change impacted by a change that happened in another >> branch of my software? >> >> Stef D., Andy K. and Veronica U. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

Nov. 26, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Antwort: Call for your input on questions you ask yourselves during merge

by Stéphane Ducasse

tx :) On Nov 24, 2011, at 1:38 PM, Thorsten.Seitz(a)deutschebahn.com wrote: > - When the version to be merged into the trunk is on a branch which I > already did merge a couple of versions earlier I want to have to see/think > about only those changes that are new (i.e. the changes between the version > last merged and the current version to be merged and not all changes > between the current version to be merged and the trunk version to be merged > into) > > e.g. > > 1.0 -> 2.0 -> 3.0 -> 4.0 -> 5.0 -> 6.0 -> 7.0 Trunk > \ / / ?? questions asked here > \ / / > -> 2.1 -> 2.2 -> 2.3 -> 2.4 Branch > > The branch version 2.2 has already been merged into trunk version 5.0 some > time earlier. > Therefore I'd like to merge only the changes between 2.2 and 2.4 into 7.0. > I don't know what Pharo does but VisualWorksdisplays all changes between > 2.4 and 7.0 while giving additional information about the last common > version which is determined to be 2.0 because previous merges are not > considered. > This forces me to think about how to merge all changes up to version 2.2 > once again. > We fixed that in our tools, of course (in VW 7.6), offering an additional > merge option which only merges the changes since a user selected common > version. > > Regards > Thorsten > > > Thorsten Seitz > Development Center Architekturkonzeption und -entwicklung (T.SVD 32) > > DB Systel GmbH > Raum 5C.136, Alfred-Herrhausen-Allee 1, 65760 Eschborn > Tel. 069 265-48245, intern 955- > _________________________________________________________________________________ > > Der DB-Konzern im Internet >> http://www.deutschebahn.com > > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Frankfurt am Main > Registergericht: Frankfurt am Main, HRB 78707 > USt-IdNr.: DE252204770 > Geschäftsführer: Detlef Exner (Vorsitzender), Dr. Burkhard Klanke, Dr. > Klaus Rüffler > Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Dr. Rolf Kranüchel > > > |------------> > | Von: | > |------------> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > |Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> | >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > |------------> > | An: | > |------------> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > |ESUG Members <esug-list(a)lists.esug.org> | >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > |------------> > | Datum: | > |------------> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > |23.11.2011 16:58 | >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > |------------> > | Betreff: | > |------------> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > |[Esug-list] Call for your input on questions you ask yourselves during merge | >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > |------------> > | Gesendet | > | von: | > |------------> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > |esug-list-bounces(a)lists.esug.org | >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > > > > > > Hi guys > > We are writing some articles on the work of veronica to support merging > activities. We need your input great smalltalk community :) > What are the questions that you ask yourselves when you are/want to merge > some code in your project? > We would like to do a compilation of questions and also evaluate how the > solution of veronica solves them or part of them. > > Here are some typical questions we asked ourselves. > - What other changes did this change require? > - Can I integrate this change right now? > - How large it is? > - Who made it? > - Is it still valid (when I'm working on an old change)? > - Is this change impacted by a change that happened in another > branch of my software? > > Stef D., Andy K. and Veronica U. > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > >

Nov. 26, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Call for your input on questions you ask yourselves during merge

by Thorsten Seitz

- When the version to be merged into the trunk is on a branch which I already did merge a couple of versions earlier I want to have to see/think about only those changes that are new (i.e. the changes between the version last merged and the current version to be merged and not all changes between the current version to be merged and the trunk version to be merged into) e.g. 1.0 -> 2.0 -> 3.0 -> 4.0 -> 5.0 -> 6.0 -> 7.0 Trunk \ / / ?? questions asked here \ / / -> 2.1 -> 2.2 -> 2.3 -> 2.4 Branch The branch version 2.2 has already been merged into trunk version 5.0 some time earlier. Therefore I'd like to merge only the changes between 2.2 and 2.4 into 7.0. I don't know what Pharo does but VisualWorksdisplays all changes between 2.4 and 7.0 while giving additional information about the last common version which is determined to be 2.0 because previous merges are not considered. This forces me to think about how to merge all changes up to version 2.2 once again. We fixed that in our tools, of course (in VW 7.6), offering an additional merge option which only merges the changes since a user selected common version. Regards Thorsten Am 23.11.2011 um 16:57 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse: > Hi guys > > We are writing some articles on the work of veronica to support merging activities. We need your input great smalltalk community :) > What are the questions that you ask yourselves when you are/want to merge some code in your project? > We would like to do a compilation of questions and also evaluate how the solution of veronica solves them or part of them. > > Here are some typical questions we asked ourselves. > - What other changes did this change require? > - Can I integrate this change right now? > - How large it is? > - Who made it? > - Is it still valid (when I'm working on an old change)? > - Is this change impacted by a change that happened in another branch of my software? > > Stef D., Andy K. and Veronica U. > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

Nov. 24, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Call for your input on questions you ask yourselves during merge

by Otto Behrens

Hi, > What are the questions that you ask yourselves when you are/want to merge some code in your project? 1. Are there any changes conflicting with my own? 2. If there are no direct conflicts (i.e. a merge worked), will the "baseline" changes combined with my own conflict? (i.e. are there implicit conflicts?) 3. Do all the tests pass after the merge? 4. How quickly can I get my changes published before someone else publishes and I have to merge again :-) To track / understand other people's changes, mostly for the purpose of resolving conflicts, I need information on the version that I'm merging with including all the versions in between. So, something like a summary of all the version comments (collected) and a summary of all the changes (that I can drill into if I need to). I suppose the kind of questions depend a lot on the way we work? My 2 cents Otto

Nov. 24, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Call for your input on questions you ask yourselves during merge

by Hernan Wilkinson

Hi, in a previous company I worked we had something very similar to what Carlos described. We used SmallLint to verify that no errors where in the code (we extended SmallLint to be able to document false positives), we had what we called programming rules that were run as SUnit tests before integration and after integration, and we also had something we called architecture tests. The programming rules included simple rules like checking the numbers of parameters, doing spell checking, that the initialize message is not send for other object but the class, etc. up to complex validations for patterns like the visitor, state, etc. The architecture rules were oriented towards dependencies between modules (applications in Envy), dependencies between systems, etc. We had a process that defined when to run each type of test (tests were categorized like functional, programming rules, architecture rules, etc using different suites). For example if you changed something, first you had to run the tests related to the changed module, then the functional tests of all the system (around 23.000 test, ran in 7 minutes) then the programming rules. After that the change was sent to the integrator who used an automatic integration tool and also the architecture tests where runned. Before closing the new release the version was uploaded to a fresh GemStone image, and all the functional tests where ran in GemStone. If everything ran correctly, the new version was released. The last steps (uploading code to gemstone, running the tests, etc) are currently done automatically in a build server using Jenkins. This process allowed us to be very confident in the code we produced. Of course that it took some time to do the whole integration cycle, that is why sometimes when the release was an internal one, we could avoid running the tests in gemstone, etc. Anyway, it feels really good to have a process like that and it is still in use. The programmers add new rules when they find mistakes they do, sometimes to prevent errors in the evolution of the code (that is very nice too... design decisions are made explicit through these tests), etc. So, at the same time is a very "reflective" process... Bye, Hernan. On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:49 AM, Joseph Pelrine <jplists(a)metaprog.com>wrote: > > > On 23.11.11 22:30, stephane ducasse wrote: > >> >>>> At my job we have several programming rules hat we check on pieces of >>> code before integrating. >>> Some of these checks could be automated, >>> >> >> like what? >> >> I integrated daily changes and I have a lot of simple questions. I'm >> quite sure that people would be interested by the answers >> to these questions. But for the moment I will not tell them but I want to >> know what you guys are asking yourselves. >> > > I've always considered it important to have a set of code quality tests > which would run before code was checked in and accepted into a common > baseline. Tests that were more than SUnit or functional acceptance tests, > but which then took a bit longer to run. I'd like to have these tests > automated and run when merging. SmallLint provides a number of these, and > there are surely some other quality and metric tools around. > > This may go a bit far, but since merging is part of a build process, I'd > also like to see whatever you do fit into a CRISP build: > > *Complete, i.e. scorched-earth build > *Repeatable, i.e. consistent and reproducable > *Informative > *Schedulable > *Portable > > FWIW > -- > Joseph Pelrine [ | ] > MetaProg GmbH > Email: jpelrine(a)metaprog.com > Web: http://www.metaprog.com > > As soon as you introduce people, things become complex. > > > ______________________________**_________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/**listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.**org<http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org> > -- *Hernán Wilkinson Agile Software Development, Teaching & Coaching Mobile: +54 - 911 - 4470 - 7207 email: hernan.wilkinson(a)10Pines.com site: http://www.10Pines.com <http://www.10pines.com/>* Address: Paraguay 523, Floor 7 N, Buenos Aires, Argentina

Nov. 24, 2011

18 months Postdoc position in Reengineering available

by Stéphane Ducasse

> From: Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > Subject: 18 months Postdoc position in Reengineering available > Date: November 23, 2011 9:52:01 AM GMT+01:00 > To: ERCIM WG Software Evolution ERCIM WG Software Evolution Mailing List <evol(a)lists.inf.unisi.ch> > > http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/web/pier/blog/2011-05-22 > > Postdoc position in software engineering at University of Chile in cooperation with INRIA > > A post-doctoral research position is available with the Pleiad Lab (Universityof Chile) and the RMoD Group (INRIA Lille Nord Europe). The position is scheduled to start in January 2012, but earlier dates are possible. The phd should be defended no prior than 2010. > > The position is targeted for research on software maintenance and software visualization. Validation of research hypotheses will be carried out using the Pharo programming language. Experience with it, or any other Smalltalk dialect, is a plus (but not necessary). > > The postdoctoral researcher will be expected to develop independent research initiatives within the scope of the position, design and contribute to the research experiments conducted by Pleiad and RMoD. There is no teaching duty associated with this position. > > Both Pleiad and RMoD offer a creative, productive and multicultural staff and students, with many collaboration opportunities. Pleiad and RMoD have an extensive expertise and an advanced infrastructure related to software analysis, data mining, testing, meta-modeling and language semantics. > > The position is funded by INRIA for a period of 18 months. In order to foster the collaboration between France and Chili, the candidate will have to share his time between Lille, France and Santiago, Chile. > > The candidate must hold a PhD in computer science. > > Contact Persons: > > • Alexandre Bergel and Stéphane Ducasse > • http://pleiad.dcc.uchile.cl > • http://rmod.lille.inria.fr > • http://www.pharo-project.org > • http://www.moosetechnology.org

Nov. 24, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Call for your input on questions you ask yourselves during merge

by Joseph Pelrine

On 23.11.11 22:30, stephane ducasse wrote: >>> >> At my job we have several programming rules hat we check on pieces of code before integrating. >> Some of these checks could be automated, > > like what? > > I integrated daily changes and I have a lot of simple questions. I'm quite sure that people would be interested by the answers > to these questions. But for the moment I will not tell them but I want to know what you guys are asking yourselves. I've always considered it important to have a set of code quality tests which would run before code was checked in and accepted into a common baseline. Tests that were more than SUnit or functional acceptance tests, but which then took a bit longer to run. I'd like to have these tests automated and run when merging. SmallLint provides a number of these, and there are surely some other quality and metric tools around. This may go a bit far, but since merging is part of a build process, I'd also like to see whatever you do fit into a CRISP build: *Complete, i.e. scorched-earth build *Repeatable, i.e. consistent and reproducable *Informative *Schedulable *Portable FWIW -- Joseph Pelrine [ | ] MetaProg GmbH Email: jpelrine(a)metaprog.com Web: http://www.metaprog.com As soon as you introduce people, things become complex.

Nov. 24, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Call for your input on questions you ask yourselves during merge

by Leandro Caniglia

If the tool only compares the new proposed version of a method with the current one, then you might miss something because sometimes the new version should be compared against a method with another selector. This is clearly the case when the change renames a selector. It also happens when the change extracts some lines from the body of a larger method. So, to put this in a question (as Stef is requesting) I would add the following: What's the method (or method fragment) that this new method modifies? leandro caniglia ph.d. | chief technologist | *caesar** systems *| *see clearly. decide smarter**.* lcaniglia(a)caesarsystems.com | t: +1.281.598.8810 +1.281.617.2972 +54.11.4389.0126 | petrovr.blogspot.com | www.caesarsystems.com This message and any attached documents contain information from Caesar Systems LLC that may be confidential/trade secret and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or use this information. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone or by reply e-mail and then delete this message. On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 7:24 PM, <mkobetic(a)cincom.com> wrote: > "Alan Knight"<knight(a)acm.org> wrote: > > Which parts of this are real changes and which are just because somebody > > felt it was important to reformat everything? :-) > > Reformatting is relatively easy, but it would be really nice if the > tooling could identify (at least some) refactoring too. Best I've seen so > far is barely identifying simple method renames, I'm fairly confident we > could do better than that. > > On top of that most tools make it difficult to compare bits of code that > don't reside in the exact same method. The fact of life is that code moves > around as responsibilities get reallocated. A good merge tool should let me > compare arbitrary bits of changes with ease. As it is the "art of merging" > is primarily being able to pick out slightest differences by simply > eyeballing chunks of code yourself. It seems that merge tools assume that > the person merging is the one who wrote the change, that is often not the > case. It's great that the obvious stuff can be merged automatically > nowadays, but any non-trivial merge case requires actual understanding of > the change. > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >

Nov. 23, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Call for your input on questions you ask yourselves during merge

by Carlos E. Ferro

Nov. 23, 2011

Re: [Esug-list] Call for your input on questions you ask yourselves during merge

by mkobetic＠cincom.com

"Alan Knight"<knight(a)acm.org> wrote: > Which parts of this are real changes and which are just because somebody > felt it was important to reformat everything? :-) Reformatting is relatively easy, but it would be really nice if the tooling could identify (at least some) refactoring too. Best I've seen so far is barely identifying simple method renames, I'm fairly confident we could do better than that. On top of that most tools make it difficult to compare bits of code that don't reside in the exact same method. The fact of life is that code moves around as responsibilities get reallocated. A good merge tool should let me compare arbitrary bits of changes with ease. As it is the "art of merging" is primarily being able to pick out slightest differences by simply eyeballing chunks of code yourself. It seems that merge tools assume that the person merging is the one who wrote the change, that is often not the case. It's great that the obvious stuff can be merged automatically nowadays, but any non-trivial merge case requires actual understanding of the change.

Nov. 23, 2011