October 2010 - Esug-list - lists.esug.org

Re: [Esug-list] Few thoughts about Google Summer of Code

by Andres Valloud

> Its not just appearance Andres, it's the complete User eXperience: > intuitiveness, ease of use, productivity, fun factor as well as the look and > feel. A lot of progress has already been made in this area, but there is > still a long way to go because most Smalltalk IDE's have not evolved that > much since the 70's ... that's probably part of why Smalltalk is being > treated like a black and white movie :) But see, I'm already sold, so I just don't see the point :)... IMO, we will make the most progress in this area by concentrating our efforts on the difficult problems. It makes me happy to see people concerned with how to make an image from scratch, for example. Andres.

Oct. 29, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] Few thoughts about Google Summer of Code

by Geert Claes

Valloud, Andres wrote: > > ... I remember Stephane and others commenting several times that > appearance is an issue, and that we need a nicer looking UI. Is this > really the main selling factor these days, or does that apply mostly to > students? ... > Its not just appearance Andres, it's the complete User eXperience: intuitiveness, ease of use, productivity, fun factor as well as the look and feel. A lot of progress has already been made in this area, but there is still a long way to go because most Smalltalk IDE's have not evolved that much since the 70's ... that's probably part of why Smalltalk is being treated like a black and white movie :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Few-thoughts-about-Google-Summer-of-Code-tp3018404p30… Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Oct. 29, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] Few thoughts about Google Summer of Code

by Geert Claes

Thanks for the feedback Dennis. Regarding your points: Dennis Schetinin wrote: > > 2. Bad news: Smalltalk is not popular. ... > Well, that's not entirely true :) The world.st site has so far had visitors from 73 countries with the top 10 coming from: Germany, United States, Uruguay, United Kingdom, France, Netherlands, Russia, Argentina, Colombia, Austria. Dennis Schetinin wrote: > > 7. ... we have to promote Smalltalk ... > Agree, Smalltalk seems to be strong in countries where it is (still) used in education. To further promote this, more educational material will be made available for others to use as they see fit. A number of lecture presentations have already been uploaded and more will follow. We plan to make them available through http://www.world.st/presentations There are also more and more screencasts published by community members. Dennis Schetinin wrote: > > 7. ... we should be more open .... > Most Smalltalk projects are already open. Commercial success stories is probably something which would be nice to make the headlines more often. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Few-thoughts-about-Google-Summer-of-Code-tp3018405p30… Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Oct. 29, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] Few thoughts about Google Summer of Code

by Andres Valloud

> You are totally right ... i have the same problem when i meet > developers from other languages. It's very difficult to change the > mind of people. I have no real answer except continue do some cool > stuff and make more noise. I betcha this is a two way street. What would we see in a Smalltalker from the point of view of, say, C? Would we think we can change the Smalltalker's mind? I remember Stephane and others commenting several times that appearance is an issue, and that we need a nicer looking UI. Is this really the main selling factor these days, or does that apply mostly to students (I phrase it this way because I remember Stef making the comment specifically with respect to students)? Andres.

Oct. 29, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] Few thoughts about Google Summer of Code

by Serge Stinckwich

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com> wrote: > … and observations …and questions … mostly inspired by GSoC Mentor Summit > > Mentor Summit was a great event! I didn't expect it to be THIS :) Very > pleasant …and very hard for me: so many people, language and culture shock > :) Great experience for me personally. Thank ESUG for choosing and sending > me there. > Bad news: Smalltalk is not popular. Well, it's not that new actually, we > know it. But I didn't manage to fix it :) Seriously: actually, it looks like > everybody knows Smalltalk (they know it existed I mean; few knows it still > exists), but it is treated like a black and white movie. People say "wow! > it's cool" and go to see Avatar. :( So developers don't take Smalltalk > seriously. We (Smalltalkers) know it's a mistake. But we have to show that > for others. And I found myself unable to do that there. I found language > and, more likely, culture barrier is too big to overcome. I didn't manage to > set up a two-way communication with others. So I listened mostly. > And I've heard many interesting ideas… apparently, organizational ideas > mostly. I need some time to process them. So, for now I'll just outline some > directions… Hi Dennis, thank you for you nice report ! You are totally right ... i have the same problem when i meet developers from other languages. It's very difficult to change the mind of people. I have no real answer except continue do some cool stuff and make more noise. Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/

Oct. 29, 2010

Few thoughts about Google Summer of Code

by Dennis Schetinin

… and observations …and questions … mostly inspired by GSoC Mentor Summit 1. Mentor Summit was a great event! I didn't expect it to be THIS :) Very pleasant …and very hard for me: so many people, language and culture shock :) Great experience for me personally. Thank ESUG for choosing and sending me there. 2. Bad news: Smalltalk is not popular. Well, it's not that new actually, we know it. But I didn't manage to fix it :) Seriously: actually, it looks like everybody knows Smalltalk (they know it existed I mean; few knows it still exists), but it is treated like a black and white movie. People say "wow! it's cool" and go to see Avatar. :( So developers don't take Smalltalk seriously. We (Smalltalkers) know it's a mistake. But we have to show that for others. And I found myself unable to do that there. I found language and, more likely, culture barrier is too big to overcome. I didn't manage to set up a two-way communication with others. So I listened mostly. 3. And I've heard many interesting ideas… apparently, organizational ideas mostly. I need some time to process them. So, for now I'll just outline some directions… 4. Did we summarize our GSoC results? I thought I've missed them, but apparently we didn't do it. At least I found only this page http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code-2010-esug/downloads/list. I didn't care much before, but now I think it is very important to look closer at the projects we did within GSoC, understand where we succeeded; where we failed; did we benefit and could we get more; make some plans for the future... etc. 5. I think we should pay more attention to GSoC. It is very important for our small society. Of course, we can't be sure smalltalkers will be invited again next year. (One of the things I tried to understand at summit but still I don't: how does Google select mentor organizations?) But this work will be very helpful, useful, advantageous… what ever. 6. We should be more serious about monitoring and controlling our projects. Since money are involved here, we have a right to. That's money from Google, but still. I think it should be a bit different from the way free projects are evolved within Smalltalk society. Since we have such opportunity we have to benefit as much as we can. 7. Smalltalk gives me competitive advantages. For that matter I don't want to :) but now I understand even better: we have to promote Smalltalk. I know everybody knows that, but I still want to state it once again. And promoting is not only about advertising and praising. We should be more open. We should find a way to start some cooperative projects with other societies/languages. I don't know how to do it. And it's extremely hard for me as I believe in Smalltalk superiority :) But still we have if we don't want Smalltalk to die. In general, it looks like making Smalltalk more open should be our priority, and this is one of the few ways to enhance prestige of Smalltalk among developers. -- Dennis Schetinin

Oct. 29, 2010

Few thoughts about Google Summer of Code

by Dennis Schetinin

… and observations …and questions … mostly inspired by GSoC Mentor Summit 1. Mentor Summit was a great event! I didn't expect it to be THIS :) Very pleasant …and very hard for me: so many people, language and culture shock :) Great experience for me personally. Thank ESUG for choosing and sending me there. 2. Bad news: Smalltalk is not popular. Well, it's not that new actually, we know it. But I didn't manage to fix it :) Seriously: actually, it looks like everybody knows Smalltalk (they know it existed I mean; few knows it still exists), but it is treated like a black and white movie. People say "wow! it's cool" and go to see Avatar. :( So developers don't take Smalltalk seriously. We (Smalltalkers) know it's a mistake. But we have to show that for others. And I found myself unable to do that there. I found language and, more likely, culture barrier is too big to overcome. I didn't manage to set up a two-way communication with others. So I listened mostly. 3. And I've heard many interesting ideas… apparently, organizational ideas mostly. I need some time to process them. So, for now I'll just outline some directions… 4. Did we summarize our GSoC results? I thought I've missed them, but apparently we didn't do it. At least I found only this page http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code-2010-esug/downloads/list. I didn't care much before, but now I think it is very important to look closer at the projects we did within GSoC, understand where we succeeded; where we failed; did we benefit and could we get more; make some plans for the future... etc. 5. I think we should pay more attention to GSoC. It is very important for our small society. Of course, we can't be sure smalltalkers will be invited again next year. (One of the things I tried to understand at summit but still I don't: how does Google select mentor organizations?) But this work will be very helpful, useful, advantageous… what ever. 6. We should be more serious about monitoring and controlling our projects. Since money are involved here, we have a right to. That's money from Google, but still. I think it should be a bit different from the way free projects are evolved within Smalltalk society. Since we have such opportunity we have to benefit as much as we can. 7. Smalltalk gives me competitive advantages. For that matter I don't want to :) but now I understand even better: we have to promote Smalltalk. I know everybody knows that, but I still want to state it once again. And promoting is not only about advertising and praising. We should be more open. We should find a way to start some cooperative projects with other societies/languages. I don't know how to do it. And it's extremely hard for me as I believe in Smalltalk superiority :) But still we have if we don't want Smalltalk to die. In general, it looks like making Smalltalk more open should be our priority, and this is one of the few ways to enhance prestige of Smalltalk among developers. -- Dennis Schetinin

Oct. 29, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk is cool on Nabble :)

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Excellent Geert. Thank you very much for this. 2010/10/27 Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> > Wow, congatulations Geert for fruits of all your effort putting all > Smalltalkers together on Nabble and on http://www.world.st! > > Best regards > Janko > > On 27. 10. 2010 16:12, Geert Claes wrote: > > > > http://forum.world.st/file/n3015547/SmalltalkIsCoolOnNabble.png > > -- > Janko Mivšek > Svetovalec za informatiko > Eranova d.o.o. > Ljubljana, Slovenija > www.eranova.si > tel: 01 514 22 55 > faks: 01 514 22 56 > gsm: 031 674 565 > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >

Oct. 28, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] All known ESUG Slides on Slideshare

by Tudor Girba

Thanks for all the effort, Marcus! Cheers, Doru On 27 Oct 2010, at 17:56, Philippe Marschall wrote: > 2010/10/27 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: >> Hello, >> >> All known ESUG Slides (all 254) are now on SlideShare: >> >> http://www.slideshare.net/esug/slideshows >> >> or as pdf in the ESUG Archive: >> >> http://esug.org/data/ > > Thanks. > > Cheers > Philippe > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org -- www.tudorgirba.com "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?"

Oct. 28, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] All known ESUG Slides on Slideshare

by Philippe Marschall

2010/10/27 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: > Hello, > > All known ESUG Slides (all 254) are now on SlideShare: > > http://www.slideshare.net/esug/slideshows > > or as pdf in the ESUG Archive: > > http://esug.org/data/ Thanks. Cheers Philippe

Oct. 27, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk is cool on Nabble :)

by Janko Mivšek

Wow, congatulations Geert for fruits of all your effort putting all Smalltalkers together on Nabble and on http://www.world.st! Best regards Janko On 27. 10. 2010 16:12, Geert Claes wrote: > > http://forum.world.st/file/n3015547/SmalltalkIsCoolOnNabble.png -- Janko Mivšek Svetovalec za informatiko Eranova d.o.o. Ljubljana, Slovenija www.eranova.si tel: 01 514 22 55 faks: 01 514 22 56 gsm: 031 674 565

Oct. 27, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] All known ESUG Slides on Slideshare

by Reza Razavi

Hi Marcus, My IWST'2010 presentation entitled "A Method for Reflective Web Applications" figures currently in your "Missing.txt" at: http://esug.org/data/ESUG2010/ It is actually available from the workshop webpage at: <http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2010/International%20Workshop%20o…>http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2010/International%20Workshop%20o… If you prefer it in an alternative format, please let me know. Regards, Reza Razavi At 16:25 27/10/2010, Marcus Denker wrote: >Hello, > >All known ESUG Slides (all 254) are now on SlideShare: > > http://www.slideshare.net/esug/slideshows > >or as pdf in the ESUG Archive: > > http://esug.org/data/ > >Up to 2000, we do not have many slides... so if somone has slides >especially from early years, >please send them. > > Marcus > > >-- >Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de >INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > >_______________________________________________ >Esug-list mailing list >Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

Oct. 27, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] All known ESUG Slides on Slideshare

by Geert Claes

Marcus Denker-4 wrote: > > All known ESUG Slides (all 254) are now on SlideShare: > > http://www.slideshare.net/esug/slideshows > > Cool, I am in the process of adding presentations for Smalltalk OOP eductaion on SlideShare too to add them to world.st. WIP: http://www.slideshare.net/SmalltalkWorld/presentations Still trying to get some structure around the large number of slides and you have just made this even harder :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/All-known-ESUG-Slides-on-Slideshare-tp3015567p3015584… Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Oct. 27, 2010

All known ESUG Slides on Slideshare

by Marcus Denker

Hello, All known ESUG Slides (all 254) are now on SlideShare: http://www.slideshare.net/esug/slideshows or as pdf in the ESUG Archive: http://esug.org/data/ Up to 2000, we do not have many slides... so if somone has slides especially from early years, please send them. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

Oct. 27, 2010

Smalltalk is cool on Nabble :)

by Geert Claes

http://forum.world.st/file/n3015547/SmalltalkIsCoolOnNabble.png -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-is-cool-on-Nabble-tp3015547p3015547.html Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Oct. 27, 2010

Looking for real-world Magma application

by Igor Stasenko

Hello all, sorry for cross-posting. :) I'd like to ask you, if anyone could share either an image or installation with application, which using Magma OODB. I'd like to use it & test how changing different aspects of Magma internals could affect the performance. There's many tricks, which is known by Chris how to speed it up by cleverly fine-tuning various Magma options, like read strategy etc. But what i'd like is to see, is some setup, used by people, and by taking it, see how it could make run faster, without changing an application code. I remember, someone gave a talk @ ESUG, that they were using Magma for their application, but then forced to switch to another DB layer, because they had bad performance issues. It would be good, if you could give me the code, so i can run it and see if things could be improved. Its not a problem, if code is not open-source, we could sign an NDA, if this is necessary. I need something real, simply because benchmarks sometimes not representative. :) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Oct. 21, 2010

Call for Prosposals - Smalltalk Solutions Las Vegas 2011 - The Business Conference

by Georg Heeg

Smalltalk Solutions is back! The last two years have seen many new developments in Smalltalk and in the software world in general. Interest in Smalltalk is growing, and it remains the best software technology for the innovations that will shape the future. Smalltalk Solutions is a forum where Smalltalk professionals, researchers, and enthusiasts can meet and share ideas and experiences. We are currently accepting proposals for talks involving Smalltalk technology and other areas of innovation in the software industry. We're looking forward to an excellent conference, and need your participation to maintain the high technical level of the conference! The conference will take place in Las Vegas, Nevada, March 13 - 16, 2011. Presentations may be in the form of * Technical Presentations * Experience Reports * Technology Demonstrations * Panel Discussions * Half-day Tutorials * Other interesting ideas ... Proposals should be submitted by email to <mailto:STS_Speakers@stic.st> STS_Speakers(a)stic.st and should include the following information: * Name * Contact Information * Type of Presentation * Title of Presentation * Brief Abstract * Short Biography of the Presenter(s) * Desired Length (45 minutes, 1.5 hrs, half-day) * Any constraints on date/time * Any other information of importance in evaluating the proposal Submissions should be received by November 30, 2010. Note that submissions with incomplete information may be rejected - particularly if bio or abstract information is missing. Presenters will qualify for a significantly discounted registration. This year that will be $200 US, or $160 US for STIC members. For announcements of the conference see www.stic.st and http://www.smalltalksolutions.com/. Georg Heeg STIC - Smalltalk Industry Council Executive Director Phone +49-3496-214328, Fax +49-3496-214712

Oct. 19, 2010

Video: Smalltalk For You

by Geert Claes

I just added James Robertson's "Smalltalk For You" Vimeo Smalltalk tutorial video's on: http://www.world.st/video

Oct. 18, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] different smalltalk groups

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Excellent. That's awesome. Thanks Geert. Mariano On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Geert Claes <geert.wl.claes(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Yep, I did go through that list (and others) when I setup the Local User > Groups at http://www.world.st/usergroups and I retained those that seemed > to be still active. > > > *From: *Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> >> *Date: *October 16, 2010 12:17:15 AM GMT+02:00 >> *To: *ESUG Members <esug-list(a)lists.esug.org> >> *Subject: **[Esug-list] different smalltalk groups* >> >> Hi...just surfing internet I found this link: >> http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1288 >> >> maybe it is worth it trying to contact the groups still alive ? >> >> cheers >> >> mariano >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > >

Oct. 18, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] different smalltalk groups

by Geert Claes

Yep, I did go through that list (and others) when I setup the Local User Groups at http://www.world.st/usergroups and I retained those that seemed to be still active. *From: *Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > *Date: *October 16, 2010 12:17:15 AM GMT+02:00 > *To: *ESUG Members <esug-list(a)lists.esug.org> > *Subject: **[Esug-list] different smalltalk groups* > > Hi...just surfing internet I found this link: > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1288 > > maybe it is worth it trying to contact the groups still alive ? > > cheers > > mariano > >

Oct. 18, 2010

Independent Misinterpretations Episode 1

by Stéphane Ducasse

Michael and I have launched a new podcast - "Independent Misinterpretations": http://www.jarober.com/blog/im.ssp The first episode is a conversation with Ernest Micklei about his soek.goodies.st site. MP3 Edition: http://www.jarober.com/blog/blogView?entry=3464803015 AAC Edition: http://www.jarober.com/blog/blogView?entry=3464803797 If you follow either link, you can also get the podcast in ogg vorbis format. To subscribe: MP3 - http://www.jarober.com/rss/blog_podcast.xml AAC - http://www.jarober.com/rss/blog_podcastAAC.xml Join us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_154069891295159 and vote us up on Podcast Alley - http://www.podcastalley.com/podcast_details.php?pod_id=105737 James Robertson http://www.jarober.com jarober(a)gmail.com

Oct. 18, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] different smalltalk groups

by Geert Claes

Yep, I did go through that list (and others) when I setup the Local User Groups at http://www.world.st/usergroups and I retained those that seemed to be still active. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/different-smalltalk-groups-tp2997792p2999738.html Sent from the ESUG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Oct. 18, 2010

James Robertson is looking for a job

by Stéphane Ducasse

Hi guys James did an excellent job over the year to push smalltalk. He is now looking for a job and we are sure that he will find one. http://www.jarober.com/blog/blogView?showComments=true&printTitle=Need_a_Sm… Thanks james for your podcasts promoting Smalltalk. Stef

Oct. 17, 2010

different smalltalk groups

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi...just surfing internet I found this link: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1288 maybe it is worth it trying to contact the groups still alive ? cheers mariano

Oct. 15, 2010

Re: [Esug-list] Object Oriented Implementation of Numerical Methods" under the MIT license

by Paolo Bonzini

On 10/14/2010 10:02 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > I want to thanks didier for releasing the code of his book under MIT. That's great, thanks! Paolo

Oct. 14, 2010