On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel <abergel@dcc.uchile.cl>wrote:
2) Yes. I have used and ported Pier, and presented it to non-Smalltalkers, and I have noticed that very small how-to or clarification things could delay me and would undoubtedly affect a non-Smalltalk user. (Some of it was just order of presentation - the how-to's that a non-Smalltalker wants first are not too hard to find - if you're a Smalltalker and so can guess where to look.) It would be good to watch people starting to use Smalltalk's 'best-practice' web suite and see what's slowing them.
There is no need of how-to's for Pier for basic usage (e.g., editing pages, adding menus, doing internal links, adding users).
I started to use Pier after watching Damien's screencast. I've tried before but could not understand how to do => no courage to go further. May be I'm stupid, but I need them. Laurent.
It is wrong to think this is necessary. I have never read the documentation of SimpleCMS, simply there isn't and there is no need to.
Alexandre
Hi,
I absolutely agree with Ralph, one of the main problems with Smalltalk
over the last twenty years
has been the lack of marketing of its strengths (the arrival of Java was another one!).
Steve Edwards (Frustrated ex-Smalltalker, ex-The-Object-People, now doing Java and Ruby.)
On 17 March 2011 11:16, Ralph Johnson <johnson@cs.uiuc.edu <mailto: johnson@cs.uiuc.edu>> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 6:02 AM, Geert Claes <geert.wl.claes@gmail.com <mailto:geert.wl.claes@gmail.com>> wrote:
laurent laffont wrote:
... The big problem with Pier is the terrible lack of
documentation, recipes,
how-to's...... no marketing, no communication with user. ...
When you say marketing what do you mean exactly because an application users want to use does its own marketing and than there is no need to do a hard sell :)
Marketing is NOT "hard sell". Marketing is figuring out what customers want and removing the things preventing them from getting it. it is finding the people who ought to use a product and letting them know about it. Marketing often means fixing the documentation, the license, or something else non-technical.
No product can succeed without marketing. None ever has. Sometimes the marketing was not done by the inventor. Sometimes it is hard to tell who is doing the marketing and just what they did. But marketing is crucial.
One of the problems with Smalltalk now is that the good marketeers have left it. When I heard that Dave Thomas was retiring I stood up on the bus, which was full of Smalltalkers, and said that this was the passing of an era, and that someone else needed to step up or Smalltalk would falter. More Smalltalkers need to read marketing books like "The Tipping Point" and "Crossing the Chasm".
This is a very important thread. Please don't say that marketing is unimportant. Marketing is crucial, and a weakness in the Smalltalk community.
-Ralph Johnson
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