September 2010 - Esug-list

Information about ESUG 2010 conference
by Noury Bouraqadi Sept. 11, 2010

Sept. 11, 2010

Dear Smalltalkers, I'd like to remind you that all information about the ESUG conference is on-line as usual http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2010 you'll there many info including (but not limited to:) -The conference schedule: http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2010/SchedulePDF?view=PRDownloadV… -Venue : http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2010/Venue -A list of Hotels: http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2010/Accomodation Last, a statistic: So far we have 133 registered people! Definitely the ESUG conference is the place to be to meet the community. For any question, please feel free to contact the esug board (board(a)esug.org) See you in Barcelona, Noury Esug treasurer

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We'll have a sunny ESUG 2010 :-)
by Noury Bouraqadi Sept. 9, 2010

Sept. 9, 2010

Begin forwarded message: > From: Jordi Delgado <jdelgado(a)lsi.upc.edu> > Date: 9 septembre 2010 13:22:27 HAEC > To: board(a)esug.org > Subject: weather forecast > > Hi, > > Good news, it looks like we are going to enjoy > a sunny ESUG! > > http://www.meteocat.com/mediamb_xemec/servmet/english/index.html > > At least until next thursday... > > Bests, > > Jordi Noury

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Re: [Esug-list] [squeak-dev] Re: Vote for the best Smalltalk book of the last 5 years...
by stephane ducasse Sept. 9, 2010

Sept. 9, 2010

Since we do not add french books we do not add spanish nor japanese ones. On Sep 8, 2010, at 4:23 PM, Ricardo Moran wrote: > You should add Diego Gomez Deck book "Programando con Smalltalk". It's in spanish so it may not be the most popular but I believe it's a very nice book (although somewhat old now). > > It was the first smalltalk book I read and I learned the basics with it, so I'm very fond of this book :) > > Regarding the book translations discussion I think translating books is very important. Even though you still need to understand english to code smalltalk I still like to read books in my language. If you get the infrastructure right I'm willing to help translating stuff to spanish in my free time. > > Cheers > Richo > > > On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. <jecel(a)merlintec.com> wrote: > Bert Freudenberg wrote on Tue, 7 Sep 2010 14:50:22 +0200 > > I for one am happy that there were enough books written about Smalltalk > > that we can have a competition. > > > > Thank you for organizing the contest, ESUG. > > I would also like to thank both ESUG for holding the contest and the > authors for their very valuable contribution to the community. While > Andreas does have a point about conflict of interest, it is unavoidable > due to the small size of our community (we had quite a bit of conflict > over this on squeak-dev last year, for example). It is like the small > town where the same guy is the sheriff, the auto repairman, the judge, > the fireman and so on. > > About the list itself, I did a quick search on Amazon for "smalltalk" > and found these others: > > Discovering Smalltalk (The Benjamin/Cummings Series in Object-Oriented > Software Engineering) > by Wilf Lalonde > (Paperback - Jan 17, 2008) - it seems to use Digitalk Smalltalk V, so > this is probably a new edition of an old book > > Advances in Smalltalk: 14th International Smaltalk Conference, ISC 2006, > Prague, Czech Republic, September 4-8, 2006, Revised Selected Papers > (Lecture ... / Programming and Software Engineering) > by Wolfgang De Meuter > (Paperback - May 18, 2007) > > Grundkurs Smalltalk - Objektorientierung von Anfang an > by Johannes Brauer > (Perfect Paperback - 2008) - in German > > Einsamkeit überwinden mit der TALISUND Strategie. Neue Menschen kennen > lernen - ohne Smalltalk. > by einsamkeit-ueberwinden.org > (Paperback - Mar 30, 2010) - in German > > The SICS Java Port Project: Automatic Translation of a Large Object > Oriented System from Smalltalk to Java > by Skarsaune Martin > (Paperback - Sep 15, 2008) - I would expect zero votes for this one :-) > > Self-Sustaining Systems: First Workshop, S3 2008 Potsdam, Germany, May > 15-16, 2008, Proceedings (Lecture Notes in Computer Science / > Programming and Software Engineering) > by Robert Hirschfeld and Kim Rose > (Paperback - Nov 21, 2008) > > Smalltalk Programming Language Family: Smalltalk, Squeak, Seaside, Ibm > Visualage, Scratch, Gnu Smalltalk, Visual Smalltalk Enterprise, Aida|web > by Books LLC > (Paperback - May 6, 2010) > > Dialecte Smalltalk: Squeak, Pharo, Gnu Smalltalk, Scratch, Bistro, > Visualworks > by Livres Groupe > (Paperback - Aug 1, 2010) - in French > > Class-Based Programming Languages: Java, C++, Python, Eiffel, Smalltalk, > Ruby, Simula, Common Lisp, Oberon, Clu, Objective-C, Squeak, Sather > by Books LLC > (Paperback - May 24, 2010) > > Dynamically-Typed Programming Languages: Lisp, Perl, Python, Mumps, > Smalltalk, Ruby, Logo, Tcl, Self, Common Lisp, Objective-C, Rebol, > Squeak > by Books LLC > (Paperback - May 26, 2010) > > Objektorientierte Programmiersprache: Php, Smalltalk-80, Embarcadero > Delphi, Oberon, Eiffel, Cluster, Haxe, Common Lisp, Pow!, Scratch, Lpc > by Bücher Gruppe > (Paperback - Jul 22, 2010) - in German > > Langage Orienté Objet: Java, C++, Ada, Javascript, Ruby, Python, > Codegear Delphi, Smalltalk, Kylix, Objective-C, Eiffel, Perl 6, Visual T > Sharp > by Livres Groupe > (Paperback - Jul 29, 2010) - in French > > Object-Oriented Programming Languages: Cobol, Java, C++, Perl, Fortran, > Python, Php, Eiffel, Smalltalk, Ruby, Blitz Basic, Turbo Pascal > by Books LLC > (Paperback - May 21, 2010) > > Ruby (Programming Language): Reflection (computer science), Dynamic > programming language, Object-oriented programming language, Perl, > Smalltalk, Yukihiro ... language), Ada (programming language) > by Frederic P. Miller, Agnes F. Vandome, and John McBrewster > (Paperback - Oct 12, 2009) > > I would say that the list is very reasonable without any of the above > books. Since I haven't read any of these nor the ones in the survey, I > won't be able to participate. But I find it great that people are still > taking the time to write new books. > > -- Jecel > > > >

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Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice
by Henrik Høyer Sept. 7, 2010

Sept. 7, 2010

Dear all >From the reactions to my post, I fear that people might have misunderstood me. Bear in mind, that I am not a native English speaker - though my language might sound harsh and offensive, I do have the best intensions. The subject of the original post should perhaps have been: "Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprise *customers*". Who shot VSE a long time ago is another discussion. As are the discussion of how/whether one could/should port the applications to other Smalltalk dialects. My focus is entirely on how the current VSE users can extend the life of their applications on the VSE platform. Even though development on VSE stopped more than 10 years ago, the applications are still running today on current operating system versions and with on-par performance. Part of VSE is closed source; The VM, the compiler and several other stuff. Though clever hacking/patching bugs in these closed parts of VSE have been fixes by the community since the official development stopped. But Cincom (who has the exclusive rights to make money from supporting the product) has now unleashed its lawyers, and are threatening some of the most active people in the community. The amount of "lawyer muscle" behind the threats are actually keeping people from even replying to this post. I did have a deep respect for Cincom; they have done a great job for the Smalltalk community. I don't know where in their organization the "money matters more than ethics" policy is in action. It is not among the Smalltalk people we all know, but the ones who are pulling the strings are in fact doing a lot of damage to their corporate image. I know that some Cincom employees have commented on my post, but I still have had no answers to the main question: Are Cincom willing to donate/sell their "exclusive exploratory rights to the VSE product"? Please note: The question is not about the IP. It is only about the rights that Cincom holds, oh and by the way; are Cincom willing to disclose the contact they have with Seagull regarding these rights? With all the best intensions [cid:speoplelogo1eb.png]<http://www.sPeople.dk> Henrik Høyer Chief Software Architect hh(a)sppl.dk<mailto:hh@sppl.dk> * (+45) 4029 2092 Rued Langgaards Vej 7 * 2300 Kbh. S www.sPeople.dk<http://www.sPeople.dk> * (+45) 7023 7775

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Re: [Esug-list] Vote for the best Smalltalk book of the last 5 years...
by Bert Freudenberg Sept. 7, 2010

Sept. 7, 2010

I for one am happy that there were enough books written about Smalltalk that we can have a competition. Thank you for organizing the contest, ESUG. Now let's spread the word and vote: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Q2LKKDT In case this got lost in the unnecessary side discussion, it's open to Wednesday, Sept. 15 noon CEST. - Bert - (Squeak Oversight Board member, speaking for myself)

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supporting the spanish translation of Pharo by example
by stephane ducasse Sept. 7, 2010

Sept. 7, 2010

Hi guys I heard that the spanish translation of the pharo by example book is at 50%. :( So please contact Gabriela Arevalo <gabriela.b.arevalo(a)gmail.com> to help. I cannot believe that you will not get it done. Stef

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Vote for the best Smalltalk book of the last 5 years...
by Stéphane Ducasse Sept. 7, 2010

Sept. 7, 2010

Dear Smalltalkers this year ESUG would like to reward effort made in book publications. Since we want to push new books but that it takes time to write books we will take into account a window of 5 years. So you are requested to vote for the best book of the last 5 years. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Q2LKKDT Stef on the behalf of the ESUG board.

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Re: [Esug-list] [Pharo-users] Vote for the best Smalltalk book of the last 5 years...
by stephane ducasse Sept. 7, 2010

Sept. 7, 2010

>>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> for some more or less conceivable reason, this hasn't made it to the >>> Squeak list yet. >> >> like what? >> I'm curious to learn. > > Like "conflict of interest"? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest) > > "A conflict of interest (COI) occurs when an individual or organization is involved in multiple interests, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation for an act in the other." > > Given that you're both the author of half of the books as well as president of ESUG (the organizer) it's pretty clear that you're stuck in a conflict of interest situation. Inviting the Pharo community to participate and not others only shows how deep the conflict of interest goes - the president of ESUG shouldn't favor individual communities, should he? Thanks andreas for this welcome mail. of course that esug does not something is not the wish of everybody. And people will vote not us. And this is not my fault if I spent my nights trying to get better a smalltalk world. Everybody can write books: a book is a word + a word + a word a lot of time, even you can do it. Now yesterday I had a difficult day - five visitors (one chilean, one argentinian, noury, luc, mariano and a team of 9 people to synchronize). You see I even forgot to send the mail to the seaside mailing-list. Thanks again for such encouragement. Stef (talking small).

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Re: [Esug-list] [Pharo-users] Vote for the best Smalltalk book of the last 5 years...
by stephane ducasse Sept. 7, 2010

Sept. 7, 2010

May be you did not realized that I wrote more squeak books than pharo ones. So what is your problems? I do not have any and if you feel better because you have nice words against me then I'm at least useful for something. Stef On Sep 7, 2010, at 10:10 AM, Andreas Raab wrote: > Ah, a good old-fashioned "Stefane Ducasse is pissed" post. Hadn't had one in a while. You really need to *read* the Wikipedia article on conflict of interest before sending one of your hate mails. Conflicts of interest happen everywhere, to me, to you, to many people. The important part is to recognize them and to act accordingly. Here is the second paragraph from Wikipedia: > > "A conflict of interest can only exist if a person or testimony is entrusted with some impartiality; a modicum of trust is necessary to create it. The presence of a conflict of interest is independent from the execution of impropriety. Therefore, a conflict of interest can be discovered and voluntarily defused before any corruption occurs." > > It should be obvious that a person who is both organizer of a contest as well as participant is in a potential conflict of interest situation. If you recognize the conflict you can deal with it. It can be as simple as being explicit that you expect others to spread the invitation, for example by including "please redistribute this announcement as widely as possible in the Smalltalk community". > > Having said all that my original point still stands, namely that your invitation of the Pharo community specifically to vote is a clear expression of an unrecognized and unmitigated conflict of interest. You need to learn to recognize such situations and to act less emotionally. Conflicts of interests happen to all of us, they can be dealt with calmly and reasonably. And I expect the president of ESUG to be able to act in such a way. > > Cheers, > - Andreas > > On 9/7/2010 12:51 AM, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> >>>>> for some more or less conceivable reason, this hasn't made it to the >>>>> Squeak list yet. >>>> >>>> like what? >>>> I'm curious to learn. >>> >>> Like "conflict of interest"? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest) >>> >>> "A conflict of interest (COI) occurs when an individual or organization is involved in multiple interests, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation for an act in the other." >>> >>> Given that you're both the author of half of the books as well as president of ESUG (the organizer) it's pretty clear that you're stuck in a conflict of interest situation. Inviting the Pharo community to participate and not others only shows how deep the conflict of interest goes - the president of ESUG shouldn't favor individual communities, should he? >> >> Thanks andreas for this welcome mail. >> of course that esug does not something is not the wish of everybody. >> And people will vote not us. And this is not my fault if I spent my nights trying to get better a smalltalk world. >> Everybody can write books: a book is a word + a word + a word a lot of time, even you can do it. >> Now yesterday I had a difficult day >> - five visitors (one chilean, one argentinian, noury, luc, mariano and a team of 9 people to synchronize). >> You see I even forgot to send the mail to the seaside mailing-list. >> >> Thanks again for such encouragement. >> >> Stef (talking small). >> >

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Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice?
by Henrik Høyer Sept. 2, 2010

Sept. 2, 2010

Dear All If you have forgotten about Visual Smalltalk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Smalltalk_Enterprise) it is this really cool Smalltalk dialect that enables users to build native Windows applications. Visual Smalltalk is one of the original Smalltalk dialects, and was made by Digitalk. In 1995 active development stopped when the merger between ParcPlace and Digitalk happened. VSE has since been in the hands of ParcPlace-Digitalk, then ObjectShare, and since 1999 Cincom. The state of affair of Visual Smalltalk Enterprise (VSE) is not optimal. The VSE community has make several attempts in the past to clear this up. These attempts has all been made quietly and discrete. When I left ESUG last year I was confident that there was a future for open-sourcing VSE. Unfortunately I have since learned that Cincom are not willing to change anything, and are regarding VSE as a cash cow. The current status is: Cincom stopped all work on the VSE platform more than a decade ago Cincom continues to collect support fees for VSE Cincom has raised the price for VSE licenses Cincom only fixes bug on a case-by-case matter. Bugs fixed for one customer is not made available to other customers. Cincom charges huge money for fixing bugs. They charge by the hour, and since they don't have the knowledge one can expect 50-100 hours for trivial fixes Cincom does not hold the IP for VSE - Seagull Software does Cincom has exclusive rights for selling and supporting VSE Seagull Software has no problem selling/donating the IP Cincom has refused to sell/donate their rights Due to the above, VSE users are jumping through hoops to actually use the product on newer operating systems. To make the matters worse, every time anyone makes a bug fix, we all fear that Cincom will drop its lawyer muscle on us. I believe that the time has come to stop being discrete and speak up in public. For VSE to have a future we need to act now. I would love for Cincom to comment on these issues. Does Cincom really see the free support and maintenance made by the community as a threat to their business? Are Cincom interested in actually supporting VSE, and not just collecting money from their trapped customers? Does Cincom really believe that VSE customers will migrate to other products supplied by them, taking only their word for not abandoning them again in the future? Unfortunately I am not able to attend ESUG this year, but I hope that others will raise these questions. I am pretty sure nobody in the Smalltalk community will benefit from the death of VSE. -- Henrik Høyer, sPeople ApS Chief Software Architect (+45) 4029 2092

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