[Esug-list] "Pharo is Smalltalk inspired"

Andres Valloud avalloud at smalltalk.comcastbiz.net
Thu Jul 31 07:20:47 EDT 2014

On 7/31/14 4:09 , Helge Nowak wrote:
> Dear Johan,
> I think there is a common understanding of what Smalltalk is and what is
> not: Ruby, Java and many others ARE Smalltalk inspired. Up to now I
> considered all Smalltalks that carry that term and also Squeak and the
> Pharo fork as "true" Smalltalks.
> By Doru's words he considers Pharo more in the "inspired, non-Smalltalk"
> corner. That is ok, yet has consequences. One of those is that in this
> light Pharo is leaving the Smalltalk community.

So, how do you define "Smalltalk community"?


> Whether you reckon the
> word "divorce" for that departure aggressive is your personal feeling.
> Divorce is a usual term describing the splitting of a former whole. I
> don't find it aggressive.
> Smalltalk as a technology, philosophy and community has always evolved -
> to the future (to what else?). Claiming that one leaves a community in
> emphasizing that one wants to move to the future silently implies that
> that community didn't move to the future, i. e. stays as is. I don't
> think that this is a correct observation with regards to Smalltalk. If
> it was intended to say that Pharo wants to move away from some Smalltalk
> concept (technical or non-technical) it should be said so, and whith
> regards to which concept and into what differing direction. There are
> many ways to the future. No problem with that. Smalltalk will walk its path.
> Cheers
> Helge
> „Wege entstehen dadurch, dass man sie geht.“, Franz Kafka
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Von:* Johan Fabry <jfabry at dcc.uchile.cl>
> *An:* Helge Nowak <hknowak at yahoo.de>
> *CC:* "pharo-business at lists.pharo.org" <pharo-business at lists.pharo.org>;
> "pharo-consortium at lists.gforge.inria.fr"
> <pharo-consortium at lists.gforge.inria.fr>; ESUG <esug-list at lists.esug.org>
> *Gesendet:* 12:24 Donnerstag, 31.Juli 2014
> *Betreff:* Re: [Esug-list] "Pharo is Smalltalk inspired"
> On Jul 31, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Helge Nowak <hknowak at yahoo.de
> <mailto:hknowak at yahoo.de>> wrote:
>  > Dear Pharoers,
>  >
>  > I stumbled upon Doru’s (BTW excellent, as usual) presentation on Live
> Objects at NDC 2014. In there he states “Pharo is Smalltalk inspired. …
> we want to point ourselves that we are Smalltalk inspired because we
> want to move towards the future”. This implies three things:
>  >     • Pharo is NOT Smalltalk
> Well, the question may also be: what IS Smalltalk? The ANSI Standard?
> ST-80? Whose implementation IS Smalltalk in that case? I think many
> current implementations may safely say that they are Smalltalk-inpired.
>  >     • All Smalltalks are not moving towards the future
> I think you are overgeneralizing. Doru is saying that Pharo is not
> sticking to (let’s say) the historical concept of Smalltalk. Sure, you
> may imply from that that some Smalltalks ARE sticking to that concept.
> But IMO it is not valid to conclude that he is saying that ALL of them
> are like that.
>  >     • The Pharo community wants to get divorced from the community
> that gave them birth
> I don’t follow your reasoning. Divorce is a very strong and aggressive
> statement. I don’t see that from what Doru is saying. Could you provide
> more detail for your train of thought?
>  > I am wondering whether this is indeed the official position of the
> Pharo community? And how the Smalltalkers think about it.
> Just my 0.02EUR ...
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> Johan Fabry  - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry
> PLEIAD lab  -  Computer Science Department (DCC)  -  University of Chile
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