[Esug-list] [Pharo-dev] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude)
goran at krampe.se
Tue Feb 11 04:07:21 EST 2014
Hi Igor and all!
On 02/10/2014 11:56 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
> Just to give you +1 on the Smalltalk family part. I mean, hell,
> we even share the VM!
> And I am not sure people understand how important this has been
> for us Squeak/Pharooners, AFAIK a LOT of the work from Eliot has
> been done through Newspeakish money, right?
> Yes. I've worked for Cadence twice. Once in 2007 to 2008 where I
> first worked on the Squeak interpreter and added immutability. Form
> there, now familiar with VMMaker I went to Qwaq and got to create
> Cog. I'm now back at Cadence and able to continue to work on Cog.
> In particular, Spur has only been possible because of my boss at
> Cadence, Yaron Kashai. At Cadence we're using Newspeak to implement
> systems for SoaC integration. Without Newspeak there would be no
> Spur. WIthout Newspeak the Cog VM would not be nearly as developed
> or reliable.
> I don't want to stoke the flames but I do hope that the community
> will consider Newspeak as part of the Smalltalk family. It is
> definitely a blood relative. Don't treat it like a black sheep.
> I am not arguing whether Newspeak belongs to smalltalk family or not
> (clearly it is).
> The point is that 'S' letter in ESUG stands for Smalltalk, not Newspeak.
> (else we should be naming it properly - ENUG).
> So, the question is whether any non-smalltalk project is eligible to run
> and compete (because there is limited number of slots) with smalltalk
> projects under ESUG umbrella?
Well, first of all I was actually *not* talking about that particular
incident (whatever took place, I have no idea) - my mistake to not make
that clear - I merely wanted to note that we should stick together as a
family *in general*. Gilad should really feel that IMHO.
Nevertheless just like Dennis noted - Pharo doesn't start with an "S" -
hell, it even uses the phrase "Smalltalk inspired" to distance itself
and make clear that hey, this is not a Smalltalk!
And Pharo has Traits so is it "Smalltalk"? :) Amber doesn't even have
globals (!) so is Amber "a Smalltalk"?
And the fact that Newspeak actually *shares the VM* with Pharo and
Squeak - that indicates a pretty strong connection, don't you think?
Much stronger than Amber many would argue... And oh, Amber actually
*claims* to be a Smalltalk ;) On the other hand it wants to be
compatible with Pharo which claims to be only "inspired"... oh, darnit!
Just kidding (well, 50% serious perhaps) Igor, I get what you mean, just
getting a bit philosophical here, I haven't had my morning coffee... :)
> If ESUG would take such road, i bet soon you will find many angry mentors,
> who was outvoted/outnumbered by "cool" PHP-MySql web projects.
Hehe, ok, PHP is NOT a Smalltalk. ;)
PS. I am hacking on protobuf in Pharo 3.0 and noticed cool NB assembler
in some places - are such methods creeping into base libraries now? What
does that mean for other CPUs? Sorry, for changing subject - feel free
to reply under different subject.
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