[Esug-list] About GSOC mess: Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name
bera.clement at gmail.com
Sun Feb 9 11:04:08 EST 2014
I'm really happy to hear that.
I think one reason why ESUG tends to be Pharo biased is the lack of
projects from other Smalltalk dialects. ESUG and GSOC cannot give money to
projects that does not exist.
I would love to see this year Squeak, Amber, Pharo, VW, Smalltalk X, GNU
smalltalk AND Visual age projects. Then it is the duty to each mentor to
advertise his project to find good students and to have his project
accepted. We all know that it is a lot of work, but last years all mentors
worked hard and the community had good results. Please future mentors
propose a project in your favourite smalltalk dialect and do your best to
have your GSOC accepted.
2014-02-09 12:58 GMT+01:00 Frank Shearar <frank.shearar at gmail.com>:
> The Squeak Oversight Board would like to see GSoC projects continue
> under the European Smalltalk User Group.
> The Squeak community plans to present several projects this year.
> On 8 February 2014 09:50, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse at inria.fr>
> > Dear community
> > On the smalltalk-gsoc-mentors at googlegroups.com janko is kind of
> > that ESUG was not doing a good job managing
> > GSOC. We feel insulted and we are quite concerned by that fact.
> > if students would not be involved I would vote that ESUG does not have
> > anything to do with GSOC. Because it costs us money, time and stress.
> > in addition that we never interferred with the choice or anything.
> > I will ask the ESUG board to decide because we cannot do the job, spend
> > time, money and be treated like that.
> > Sorry! We are sad but this is like that.
> > Then we do not like the kind of mails that Janko is sending us about the
> > fact that ESUG is biased towards Pharo.
> > Where are the research teams and teachers? Of course: the mails of janko
> > are just so nice. I let you judge.
> > It is particularly fun since this year we (the pharo board) decided not
> > organise a Pharo conference to avoid competing with ESUG.
> > About motivations for my proposal:
> > 1. 'Smalltalk' is more recognizable name on first spot that 'ESUG' . And
> > this matters when a student looks at around 150 GSoC organizations to
> > choose, which one to check and try. See last year list of orgs.
> > 2. ESUG is currently regarded by many as too biased towards Pharo. Let we
> > avoid starting debating is this is true or not. Making our org more
> > independent will I hope remove any remaining doubt about that.
> > I feel shocked and insulted but I take it easy, having success make you
> > easy target for jaleous people. This is strange that
> > some people would prefer to have a non existing/moving open-source
> > smalltalk. May be the losers theory.
> > I added the answer of marcus below (because marcus usually is much calmer
> > than me) so that Janko succeeded to get marcus reacting like that is a
> > proof in itself.
> > ruby and python, clojure that we should fight.
> > Excellent idea thank for this nice initiative.
> > Stef
> > Begin forwarded message:
> > From: Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [gsoc-mentors] Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name
> > Date: 8 Feb 2014 08:46:18 GMT+1
> > To: smalltalk-gsoc-mentors at googlegroups.com
> > Reply-To: smalltalk-gsoc-mentors at googlegroups.com
> > Dear mentors,
> > I propose that we run this year GSoC simply under 'Smalltalk' name.
> > Mentoring organization will be us mentors of past and current GSoCs, as
> > name 'mentoring organization' implies anyway. Such organization therefore
> > doesn't need to be some kind of legal entity.
> > Because I need to open a new website and we have only one week to
> > decision needs to be done soon.
> > Best regards
> > Janko
> > ---
> > Janko Mivšek
> > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team
> > --
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> > Of course you need it: I filled out quite some paperwork for Google.
> ESUG is
> > an official Google supplier, for that I filled american tax forms and so
> > Without an organisation that will be very difficult. How do yu receive
> > for the flight if someone goes to the meeting in the fall?
> > One of the reasons why the Smalltalk GSOC was accepted was I think that
> > was the same organisation that is already in the books of google.
> > And I do not see why to change that: ESUG did a good job, we even lost
> > (that is, we spend more money on additional Summer of Code slots
> > than got in with the money from google).
> > We payed all additional expenses of the people going to the Summit:
> > only pays the flight and hotel. Everyhting else not (e.g. going from the
> > airpot
> > to the hotel).
> > What we need to discuss this year is if additional slots make sense: We
> > last year the fast that
> > a) it was very expensive for ESUG
> > b) even then, we got complaints that it was unfair that we did not pay
> > same as google
> > c) that it was very extremely unfair that the student could not put
> > Summer of Code” on the CV.
> > The last is the Killer: money from ESUG is just money. GSoC is more. So
> > ask if it is really worth to spend the money
> > if even the students are not happy about it.
> > And if your motivation behind is that this way you think it will be
> > to enable “Quotas” for different Smalltalks: I think this is a dumb
> > Yes, Pharo is very active. So could every other Smalltalk be, too. They
> > need to do it. If they do not, it is not my duty to limit
> > my activity for “Fairness”. Limiting the activity level of those who do
> > be more “in line” with what those do who do nothing is just
> > *insane*. It’s a description of death itself.
> > Marcus
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