[Esug-list] About GSOC mess: Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name

Stéphane Ducasse stephane.ducasse at inria.fr
Sat Feb 8 06:50:59 EST 2014


> Guys, could you please stop this debate and focus all this energy on
> proposing good topics instead? Try to actually accomplish something?

this is what I’m doing since years.

> Is this what we want to show as a community? Hasn't this discussion done
> enough harm already to the image we show to the world? Come on... Let's
> try to be a better community together, not a worse one.

Exactly so people should start not to piss on us :)
And judge on what we are doing:
	- new lectures in cameron
	- support prague community
	- supporting FAST
	- supporting new books
	- pushing to get new lectures (delft, lugano and others I hope that they will be able to do so)	

Stef

>> Dear Smalltalkers,
>> 
>> Stef is overreacting as always, going off-topic and don't want to see
>> the real reasons behind this proposal. Which is to make GSoC attractive
>> to all Smalltalkers by removing the last doubt about the any bias
>> towards any Smalltalk or group. That's why I propose to go more
>> independent under new name 'Smalltalk', besides a clearly better
>> visibility of such name of course.
>> 
>>  I invite you to follow the debate on GSoC mentor list:
>> 
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors
>> 
>> All mentors with voting rights on past GSoCs please join back to this
>> mailing list and help with debate:
>> 
>>  https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/join
>> 
>> Best regards
>> Janko
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dne 08. 02. 2014 10:50, piše Stéphane Ducasse:
>>> Dear community
>>> 
>>> On the smalltalk-gsoc-mentors at googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors at googlegroups.com> janko is kind of
>>> declaring that ESUG was not doing a good job managing 
>>> GSOC. We feel insulted and we are quite concerned by that fact.
>>> Personally if students would not be involved I would vote that ESUG does
>>> not have anything to do with GSOC. Because it costs us money, time and
>>> stress. Note in addition that we never interferred with the choice or
>>> anything. 
>>> 
>>> I will ask the ESUG board to decide because we cannot do the job, spend
>>> time, money and be treated like that.
>>> Sorry! We are sad but this is like that.
>>> 
>>> Then we do not like the kind of mails that Janko is sending us about the
>>> fact that ESUG is biased towards Pharo. 
>>> Where are the research teams and teachers?  Of course: the mails of
>>> janko are just so nice. I let you judge.
>>> 
>>> It is particularly fun since this year we (the pharo board) decided not
>>> to organise a Pharo conference to avoid competing with ESUG. 
>>> 
>>>> About motivations for my proposal:
>>>> 
>>>> 1. 'Smalltalk' is more recognizable name on first spot that 'ESUG' .
>>>> And this matters when a student looks at around 150 GSoC organizations
>>>> to choose, which one to check and try. See last year list of orgs
>>>> <http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2013>.
>>>> 
>>>> 2. ESUG is currently regarded by many as too biased towards Pharo. Let
>>>> we avoid starting debating is this is true or not. Making our org more
>>>> independent will I hope remove any remaining doubt about that.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I feel shocked and insulted but I take it easy, having success make you
>>> as easy target for jaleous people. This is strange that 
>>> some people would prefer to have a non existing/moving open-source
>>> smalltalk. May be the losers theory.
>>> 
>>> I added the answer of marcus below (because marcus usually is much
>>> calmer than me) so that Janko succeeded to get marcus reacting like that
>>> is a nice proof in itself.
>>> 
>>> Seriously Smalltalk is in a so good shape in presence of lua,
>>> Javascript, ruby and python, clojure that we should fight.
>>> 
>>> Excellent idea thank for this nice initiative. 
>>> 
>>> Stef
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>> 
>>>> *From: *Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:janko.mivsek at gmail.com>>
>>>> *Subject: **[gsoc-mentors] Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name*
>>>> *Date: *8 Feb 2014 08:46:18 GMT+1
>>>> *To: *smalltalk-gsoc-mentors at googlegroups.com
>>>> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors at googlegroups.com>
>>>> *Reply-To: *smalltalk-gsoc-mentors at googlegroups.com
>>>> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors at googlegroups.com>
>>>> 
>>>> Dear mentors,
>>>> 
>>>> I propose that we run this year GSoC simply under 'Smalltalk' name.
>>>> Mentoring organization will be us mentors of past and current GSoCs,
>>>> as the name 'mentoring organization' implies anyway. Such organization
>>>> therefore doesn't need to be some kind of legal entity.
>>>> 
>>>> Because I need to open a new website and we have only one week to
>>>> deadline, decision needs to be done soon.
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards
>>>> Janko
>>>> 
>>>> ---
>>>> Janko Mivšek
>>>> Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
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>>>> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Of course you need it: I filled out quite some paperwork for Google.
>>> ESUG is an official Google supplier, for that I filled american tax
>>> forms and so on.
>>> 
>>> Without an organisation that will be very difficult. How do yu receive
>>> money for the flight if someone goes to the meeting in the fall?
>>> 
>>> One of the reasons why the Smalltalk GSOC was accepted was I think that
>>> it was the same organisation that is already in the books of google.
>>> 
>>> And I do not see why to change that: ESUG did a good job, we even lost
>>> money (that is, we spend more money on additional Summer of Code slots
>>> than got in with the money from google).
>>> We payed all additional expenses of the people going to the Summit:
>>> Google only pays the flight and hotel. Everyhting else not (e.g. going
>>> from the airpot
>>> to the hotel).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> What we need to discuss this year is if additional slots make sense: We
>>> had last year the fast that
>>> a) it was very expensive for ESUG
>>> b) even then, we got complaints that it was unfair that we did not pay
>>> the same as google
>>> c) that it was very extremely unfair that the student could not put
>>> “Google Summer of Code” on the CV.
>>> 
>>> The last is the Killer: money from ESUG is just money. GSoC is more. So
>>> we ask if it is really worth to spend the money
>>> if even the students are not happy about it.
>>> 
>>> And if your motivation behind is that this way you think it will be
>>> easier to enable “Quotas” for different Smalltalks:  I think this is a
>>> dumb idea.
>>> 
>>> Yes, Pharo is very active. So could every other Smalltalk be, too. They
>>> just need to do it. If they do not, it is not my duty to limit
>>> my activity for “Fairness”. Limiting the activity level of those who do
>>> to be more “in line” with what those do who do nothing is just
>>> *insane*. It’s a description of death itself.
>>> 
>>> Marcus
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nicolas Petton
> http://nicolas-petton.fr
> 
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