Il 16/05/2013 17:38, Alejandro F. Reimondo ha scritto:

Hi Paolo,

As you wrote to my personal email and c.c. to places where I am not subscribed, please c.c. my response (total or partially) to that places to make the point clear to persons that can read your email.

Sure.

...

The main system is at http://u8.smalltalking.net/profile/aleReimondo/239/index.html. It has a "MIT Licensed" link to the license, but it fails to list the copyright holders.

The page do not load ok if you are using IE. Please try it on Chrome or other webbrowser. In case you must load the page in IE, press F5 to refresh the page a few times and it will work :-)

I was using Firefox.

The license terms in an open system can change through time and can be read in case the system is working ok.

I think you're confusing permissive license terms with "public domain". When someone releases code under a permissive (non-copyleft) license, they are not giving away their copyright. They are keeping the copyright, and granting to you the *license* to use the work according to the license text. In the MIT license you can read: * The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be * included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software. Your website is including the permission notice, but not the copyright notice. The source is including both, but there is no easy way to find it. As things are, you are not respecting the license. Also, you're confusing ideas (which cannot be copyrighted) with code. Of course the _ideas_ in a modern Smalltalk environment formed slowly during the past 41 years. And everybody is free to conceive a JavaScript implementation of Smalltalk. But if the idea is "translated into code" by cut-and-paste of someone else's work, you must acknowledge that work and their authors. For example, the Stream libraries of GNU Smalltalk and Pharo implement the same interface. I _never_ looked at Pharo code (much less cut-and-pasted it) when writing it, hence I can say that the entire copyright of that code is mine. If I had taken code from Pharo, I should have added a "Copyright (C) 2011 the Pharo authors" or something like that. I'm sure there is no malice in your action, but you should correct the references to the license so that they also include the copyright holders. And your FAQ should not contain evasive answers, nor downplay copyright. If someone asked you if U8 is a derivative of Jtalk or Amber, the best thing to do is to answer that clearly, perhaps even provide a reference to the version of the code that you forked from. It would let interested people backport bugfixes from Jtalk/Amber to U8, for example. Most importantly, remember that this is not about culture, it is about _law_. Do the same thing tomorrow to someone less friendly than Nicolas, and you might get in court. I suggest reading http://www.infoworld.com/d/open-source-software/github-needs-take-open-sourc....

If the system has errors (the case with IE) it can fail to show the license terms, at the current state of the system.

This was not the case. Paolo

I have written a response to Nicolas with more information about S8 images running on diferent execution environments and license terms.

cheers, Ale.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Paolo Bonzini" <bonzini@gnu.org> To: "Nicolas Petton" <petton.nicolas@gmail.com> Cc: "esug-list" <esug-list@lists.esug.org>; "Amber ML" <amber-lang@googlegroups.com>; <u8@smalltalking.net>; "Alejandro F. Reimondo" <aleReimondo@smalltalking.net> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [Esug-list] It looks like Amber, it smells like Amber… But it is not Amber!

Il 16/05/2013 15:15, Nicolas Petton ha scritto:

...

...

...

Now maybe I'm just too stupid and I " have not reached the understanding of Smalltalk required to adopt a POV consistent with S8"...

This certainly makes no sense, apart from the snarkiness.

The text that Guido found is from http://u8.smalltalking.net/profile/aleReimondo/147/index.html, but there's no reason to believe that it extends to more than that project.

The main system is at http://u8.smalltalking.net/profile/aleReimondo/239/index.html. It has a "MIT Licensed" link to the license, but it fails to list the copyright holders.

The source code at http://u8.smalltalking.net/profile/smalltalking/64/u8.image.js does list copyright holders:

------------ S8 - Basic U8 image. Copyright (C) 2013 - http://u8.smalltalking.net/u8.html Copyright (C) 2013 Alejandro F. Reimondo <aleReimondo@smalltalking.net> http://www.aleReimondo.com

Parts of source code written for Jtalk, Copyright (C) 2011 by Nicolas Petton <petton.nicolas@gmail.com> Also code and ideas from Clamato (http://clamato.net), written by Avi Byrant. The PetitParser library, published by Lukas Renggli (http://lukas-renggli.ch) and released under the MIT license. And people that contributed to Smalltalk on diverse media years(decades) before this license holders claimed ownership. -------------

It would be nice if it were a bit easier to find...

Paolo

...