Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice
If you are continuing to use VSE, please reply to the list with at least a simple "Yes". I have no interest in VSE, but Henrik has asked twice and got no replies (on this list), so let's at least help reduce a fellow Smalltalker's frustration. Cheers, Steve From: esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org] On Behalf Of Henrik Høyer Sent: 7. syyskuuta 2010 22:04 To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list; ESUG Mailing list Subject: Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice Dear all
From the reactions to my post, I fear that people might have misunderstood me. Bear in mind, that I am not a native English speaker - though my language might sound harsh and offensive, I do have the best intensions.
The subject of the original post should perhaps have been: "Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprise *customers*". Who shot VSE a long time ago is another discussion. As are the discussion of how/whether one could/should port the applications to other Smalltalk dialects. My focus is entirely on how the current VSE users can extend the life of their applications on the VSE platform. Even though development on VSE stopped more than 10 years ago, the applications are still running today on current operating system versions and with on-par performance. Part of VSE is closed source; The VM, the compiler and several other stuff. Though clever hacking/patching bugs in these closed parts of VSE have been fixes by the community since the official development stopped. But Cincom (who has the exclusive rights to make money from supporting the product) has now unleashed its lawyers, and are threatening some of the most active people in the community. The amount of "lawyer muscle" behind the threats are actually keeping people from even replying to this post. I did have a deep respect for Cincom; they have done a great job for the Smalltalk community. I don't know where in their organization the "money matters more than ethics" policy is in action. It is not among the Smalltalk people we all know, but the ones who are pulling the strings are in fact doing a lot of damage to their corporate image. I know that some Cincom employees have commented on my post, but I still have had no answers to the main question: Are Cincom willing to donate/sell their "exclusive exploratory rights to the VSE product"? Please note: The question is not about the IP. It is only about the rights that Cincom holds, oh and by the way; are Cincom willing to disclose the contact they have with Seagull regarding these rights? With all the best intensions <http://www.sPeople.dk> Henrik Høyer Chief Software Architect hh@sppl.dk <mailto:hh@sppl.dk> * (+45) 4029 2092 Rued Langgaards Vej 7 * 2300 Kbh. S www.sPeople.dk <http://www.sPeople.dk> * (+45) 7023 7775
Yes, we are still using Digitalk Visual Smalltalk. We did a presentation about our efforts to keep it alive at ESUG 2008 in Amsterdam: http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2008/A%20Moribund%20Smalltalk%20st ill%20alive%20and%20kicking%3A%20The%20APIS%20VisualSmalltalk%20IDE?_s=g-5d5 pKDIUCnaLYZ <http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2008/A%20Moribund%20Smalltalk%20s till%20alive%20and%20kicking%3A%20The%20APIS%20VisualSmalltalk%20IDE?_s=g-5d 5pKDIUCnaLYZ&_k=2Nhf_0Bb-GKGSvlV&_n&24> &_k=2Nhf_0Bb-GKGSvlV&_n&24 Andreas Rosenberg | eMail: andreas.rosenberg@apis.de APIS GmbH | Phone: +49 9482 9415-0 Im Haslet 42 | Fax: +49 9482 9415-55 93086 Wörth/D | WWW: < http://www.apis.de/ <http://www.apis.de/> > Germany | < http://www.fmea.de/ <http://www.fmea.de/> > -----Original Message----- From: esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org]On Behalf Of Steven Kelly Sent: Mittwoch, 8. September 2010 11:13 To: Henrik Høyer; The general-purpose Squeak developers list; ESUG Mailing list Subject: Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice If you are continuing to use VSE, please reply to the list with at least a simple "Yes". I have no interest in VSE, but Henrik has asked twice and got no replies (on this list), so let's at least help reduce a fellow Smalltalker's frustration. Cheers, Steve From: esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org] On Behalf Of Henrik Høyer Sent: 7. syyskuuta 2010 22:04 To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list; ESUG Mailing list Subject: Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice Dear all
From the reactions to my post, I fear that people might have misunderstood me. Bear in mind, that I am not a native English speaker - though my language might sound harsh and offensive, I do have the best intensions.
The subject of the original post should perhaps have been: "Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprise *customers*". Who shot VSE a long time ago is another discussion. As are the discussion of how/whether one could/should port the applications to other Smalltalk dialects. My focus is entirely on how the current VSE users can extend the life of their applications on the VSE platform. Even though development on VSE stopped more than 10 years ago, the applications are still running today on current operating system versions and with on-par performance. Part of VSE is closed source; The VM, the compiler and several other stuff. Though clever hacking/patching bugs in these closed parts of VSE have been fixes by the community since the official development stopped. But Cincom (who has the exclusive rights to make money from supporting the product) has now unleashed its lawyers, and are threatening some of the most active people in the community. The amount of "lawyer muscle" behind the threats are actually keeping people from even replying to this post. I did have a deep respect for Cincom; they have done a great job for the Smalltalk community. I don't know where in their organization the "money matters more than ethics" policy is in action. It is not among the Smalltalk people we all know, but the ones who are pulling the strings are in fact doing a lot of damage to their corporate image. I know that some Cincom employees have commented on my post, but I still have had no answers to the main question: Are Cincom willing to donate/sell their "exclusive exploratory rights to the VSE product"? Please note: The question is not about the IP. It is only about the rights that Cincom holds, oh and by the way; are Cincom willing to disclose the contact they have with Seagull regarding these rights? With all the best intensions <http://www.sPeople.dk> sPeople Logo Henrik Høyer Chief Software Architect <mailto:hh@sppl.dk> hh@sppl.dk * (+45) 4029 2092 Rued Langgaards Vej 7 * 2300 Kbh. S <http://www.sPeople.dk> www.sPeople.dk * (+45) 7023 7775
I was a good one :) Stef On Sep 8, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Andreas Rosenberg wrote:
Yes, we are still using Digitalk Visual Smalltalk.
We did a presentation about our efforts to keep it alive at ESUG 2008 in Amsterdam:
http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2008/A%20Moribund%20Smalltalk%20st ill%20alive%20and%20kicking%3A%20The%20APIS%20VisualSmalltalk%20IDE?_s=g-5d5 pKDIUCnaLYZ <http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2008/A%20Moribund%20Smalltalk%20s till%20alive%20and%20kicking%3A%20The%20APIS%20VisualSmalltalk%20IDE?_s=g-5d 5pKDIUCnaLYZ&_k=2Nhf_0Bb-GKGSvlV&_n&24> &_k=2Nhf_0Bb-GKGSvlV&_n&24
Andreas Rosenberg | eMail: andreas.rosenberg@apis.de APIS GmbH | Phone: +49 9482 9415-0 Im Haslet 42 | Fax: +49 9482 9415-55 93086 Wörth/D | WWW: < http://www.apis.de/ <http://www.apis.de/> > Germany | < http://www.fmea.de/ <http://www.fmea.de/> >
-----Original Message----- From: esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org]On Behalf Of Steven Kelly Sent: Mittwoch, 8. September 2010 11:13 To: Henrik Høyer; The general-purpose Squeak developers list; ESUG Mailing list Subject: Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice
If you are continuing to use VSE, please reply to the list with at least a simple "Yes".
I have no interest in VSE, but Henrik has asked twice and got no replies (on this list), so let's at least help reduce a fellow Smalltalker's frustration.
Cheers,
Steve
From: esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org] On Behalf Of Henrik Høyer Sent: 7. syyskuuta 2010 22:04 To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list; ESUG Mailing list Subject: Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice
Dear all
From the reactions to my post, I fear that people might have misunderstood me. Bear in mind, that I am not a native English speaker - though my language might sound harsh and offensive, I do have the best intensions.
The subject of the original post should perhaps have been: "Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprise *customers*". Who shot VSE a long time ago is another discussion. As are the discussion of how/whether one could/should port the applications to other Smalltalk dialects.
My focus is entirely on how the current VSE users can extend the life of their applications on the VSE platform. Even though development on VSE stopped more than 10 years ago, the applications are still running today on current operating system versions and with on-par performance.
Part of VSE is closed source; The VM, the compiler and several other stuff. Though clever hacking/patching bugs in these closed parts of VSE have been fixes by the community since the official development stopped. But Cincom (who has the exclusive rights to make money from supporting the product) has now unleashed its lawyers, and are threatening some of the most active people in the community. The amount of "lawyer muscle" behind the threats are actually keeping people from even replying to this post.
I did have a deep respect for Cincom; they have done a great job for the Smalltalk community. I don't know where in their organization the "money matters more than ethics" policy is in action. It is not among the Smalltalk people we all know, but the ones who are pulling the strings are in fact doing a lot of damage to their corporate image.
I know that some Cincom employees have commented on my post, but I still have had no answers to the main question:
Are Cincom willing to donate/sell their "exclusive exploratory rights to the VSE product"?
Please note: The question is not about the IP. It is only about the rights that Cincom holds, oh and by the way; are Cincom willing to disclose the contact they have with Seagull regarding these rights?
With all the best intensions
<http://www.sPeople.dk> sPeople Logo
Henrik Høyer
Chief Software Architect
<mailto:hh@sppl.dk> hh@sppl.dk * (+45) 4029 2092
Rued Langgaards Vej 7 * 2300 Kbh. S
<http://www.sPeople.dk> www.sPeople.dk * (+45) 7023 7775
<winmail.dat>_______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list@lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
Yes, we are using VSE. leandro caniglia ph.d. | chief technologist | *caesar** systems *| *see clearly. decide smarter**.* lcaniglia@caesarsystems.com | t: +1.281.598.8810 +1.281.617.2972 +54.11.4389.0126 | www.caesarsystems.com This message and any attached documents contain information from Caesar Systems LLC that may be confidential/trade secret and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or use this information. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone or by reply e-mail and then delete this message. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 6:12 AM, Steven Kelly <stevek@metacase.com> wrote:
If you are continuing to use VSE, please reply to the list with at least a simple “Yes”.
I have no interest in VSE, but Henrik has asked twice and got no replies (on this list), so let’s at least help reduce a fellow Smalltalker’s frustration.
Cheers,
Steve
*From:* esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org [mailto: esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org] *On Behalf Of *Henrik Høyer *Sent:* 7. syyskuuta 2010 22:04 *To:* The general-purpose Squeak developers list; ESUG Mailing list *Subject:* Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice
Dear all
From the reactions to my post, I fear that people might have misunderstood me. Bear in mind, that I am not a native English speaker – though my language might sound harsh and offensive, I do have the best intensions.
The subject of the original post should perhaps have been: “Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprise *customers*”. Who shot VSE a long time ago is another discussion. As are the discussion of how/whether one could/should port the applications to other Smalltalk dialects.
My focus is entirely on how the current VSE users can extend the life of their applications on the VSE platform. Even though development on VSE stopped more than 10 years ago, the applications are still running today on current operating system versions and with on-par performance.
Part of VSE is closed source; The VM, the compiler and several other stuff. Though clever hacking/patching bugs in these closed parts of VSE have been fixes by the community since the official development stopped. But Cincom (who has the exclusive rights to make money from supporting the product) has now unleashed its lawyers, and are threatening some of the most active people in the community. The amount of “lawyer muscle” behind the threats are actually keeping people from even replying to this post.
I did have a deep respect for Cincom; they have done a great job for the Smalltalk community. I don’t know where in their organization the “money matters more than ethics” policy is in action. It is not among the Smalltalk people we all know, but the ones who are pulling the strings are in fact doing a lot of damage to their corporate image.
I know that some Cincom employees have commented on my post, but I still have had no answers to the main question:
Are Cincom willing to donate/sell their “exclusive exploratory rights to the VSE product”?
Please note: The question is not about the IP. It is only about the rights that Cincom holds, oh and by the way; are Cincom willing to disclose the contact they have with Seagull regarding these rights?
With all the best intensions
[image: sPeople Logo] <http://www.sPeople.dk>
*Henrik Høyer*
Chief Software Architect
hh@sppl.dk • (+45) 4029 2092
Rued Langgaards Vej 7 • 2300 Kbh. S
www.sPeople.dk • (+45) 7023 7775
_______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list@lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
Yes, we are using VSE Nino Galante ___________________ Telebit Consulting S.r.l. http://www.telebitconsulting.it ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Kelly To: Henrik Høyer ; The general-purpose Squeak developers list ; ESUG Mailing list Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice If you are continuing to use VSE, please reply to the list with at least a simple "Yes". I have no interest in VSE, but Henrik has asked twice and got no replies (on this list), so let's at least help reduce a fellow Smalltalker's frustration. Cheers, Steve From: esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org] On Behalf Of Henrik Høyer Sent: 7. syyskuuta 2010 22:04 To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list; ESUG Mailing list Subject: Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice Dear all From the reactions to my post, I fear that people might have misunderstood me. Bear in mind, that I am not a native English speaker - though my language might sound harsh and offensive, I do have the best intensions. The subject of the original post should perhaps have been: "Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprise *customers*". Who shot VSE a long time ago is another discussion. As are the discussion of how/whether one could/should port the applications to other Smalltalk dialects. My focus is entirely on how the current VSE users can extend the life of their applications on the VSE platform. Even though development on VSE stopped more than 10 years ago, the applications are still running today on current operating system versions and with on-par performance. Part of VSE is closed source; The VM, the compiler and several other stuff. Though clever hacking/patching bugs in these closed parts of VSE have been fixes by the community since the official development stopped. But Cincom (who has the exclusive rights to make money from supporting the product) has now unleashed its lawyers, and are threatening some of the most active people in the community. The amount of "lawyer muscle" behind the threats are actually keeping people from even replying to this post. I did have a deep respect for Cincom; they have done a great job for the Smalltalk community. I don't know where in their organization the "money matters more than ethics" policy is in action. It is not among the Smalltalk people we all know, but the ones who are pulling the strings are in fact doing a lot of damage to their corporate image. I know that some Cincom employees have commented on my post, but I still have had no answers to the main question: Are Cincom willing to donate/sell their "exclusive exploratory rights to the VSE product"? Please note: The question is not about the IP. It is only about the rights that Cincom holds, oh and by the way; are Cincom willing to disclose the contact they have with Seagull regarding these rights? With all the best intensions Henrik Høyer Chief Software Architect hh@sppl.dk . (+45) 4029 2092 Rued Langgaards Vej 7 . 2300 Kbh. S www.sPeople.dk . (+45) 7023 7775 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list@lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
14 timesRepeat:[YES]. Steve, unfortunately most VSE Users missed your question... This week, we raised your question again on the VSEW mailing list and so far, we got 14 positive replies from the following persons/companies which did not directly reply to your posting (their replies are appended below) : Derek Renouf, Martin H. Krough, Giorgio Ferraris, Chris Copleston, Kjell Harald Ulstad, Nicolas Bryant, Lorenzo Schiavina, Ed Baker, Manfred Möbus, Carl Gundel, Skogstad Nielsson, Rick Martin, Lorin McCaffrey, Alejandro F. Reimondo Regards, Tom -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org]Im Auftrag von Steven Kelly Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. September 2010 11:13 An: Henrik Høyer; The general-purpose Squeak developers list; ESUG Mailing list Betreff: Re: [Esug-list] Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice If you are continuing to use VSE, please reply to the list with at least a simple Yes. I have no interest in VSE, but Henrik has asked twice and got no replies (on this list), so lets at least help reduce a fellow Smalltalkers frustration. Cheers, Steve ****************** ORIGINAL REPLIES FROM THE VSEW MAILING LIST **************************************************** -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise [mailto:VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE]Im Auftrag von Derek Renouf Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. September 2010 10:30 An: VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE Betreff: Re: Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice Andreas, We are very interested in continued use of VSE and developments including the Lesser VM. Whilst I am not on the ESUG mailing list I am certainly interested in the response from Cincom. -- Derek ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise [mailto:VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE]Im Auftrag von Martin H Krogh Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. September 2010 10:24 An: VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE Betreff: Re: Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice Sorry - I must have missed that one... Yeah, I'm happily using VSE :-) Med venlig hilsen / Best regards MARTIN HASTRUP KROGH Systemdeveloper CSC Scandihealth A/S --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise [mailto:VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE]Im Auftrag von giorgio ferraris Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. September 2010 11:17 An: VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE Betreff: Re: Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice we are still using VSE for an old product new dev in VW ciao Giorgio ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise [mailto:VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE]Im Auftrag von Chris Copleston Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. September 2010 11:22 An: VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE Betreff: Re: Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice We use VSE for our web authoring product: www.softidiom.com Regards, Chris Copleston www.softidiom.com www.4dsites.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise [mailto:VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE]Im Auftrag von Kjell Harald Ulstad Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. September 2010 11:53 An: VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE Betreff: Re: Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice Hi! Yes, we are using VSE, but we dont follow the ESUG mailing list. Our product (Paga Klient) is critically important for us and our customers. www.multidata-bluegarden.com Regards /Kjell Kjell H. Ulstad Arkitekt. Systemeier Paga/R&D +47 908 33 417 www.bluegarden.no ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise [mailto:VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE]Im Auftrag von Nicolas Bryant Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. September 2010 12:04 An: VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE Betreff: Re: Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice As everyone else seems to be chiming in: my VisualSmalltalk application is still very important to my company and will remain so for at least another year or two. We recently signed a 7-figure contract with the Australian army, and the VisualSmalltalk application is probably the single most important component for their purposes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise [mailto:VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE]Im Auftrag von Lorenzo Schiavina Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. September 2010 12:35 An: VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE Betreff: Re: Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice All my applications are in VSE www.edor.it Lorenzo ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise [mailto:VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE]Im Auftrag von Ed Baker Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. September 2010 13:32 An: VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE Betreff: Re: Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice Yes, we are using VSE for our product. I am not on the ESUG mailing list. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise [mailto:VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE]Im Auftrag von Möbus. Manfred Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. September 2010 14:53 An: VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE Betreff: Re: Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice Adding one further item: We are heavily using VSE, will probably do so for long (and none of us is in the esug mailing list). Manfred ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise [mailto:VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE]Im Auftrag von Carl Gundel Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. September 2010 15:44 An: VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE Betreff: Re: Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice I use it all the time, nearly every day. -Carl Gundel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise [mailto:VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE]Im Auftrag von SkogstadNielsen Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. September 2010 16:05 An: VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE Betreff: Re: Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice Here is another happy user Søren Skogstad Nielsen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise [mailto:VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE]Im Auftrag von Rick Martin Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. September 2010 16:19 An: VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE Betreff: Re: Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice We (Data-Basics) market a very large VSE based application known as Sampro. VSE is vital to our business and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future. Rick Martin Data-Basics Inc. rmartin@databasics.com 216-663-5600 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise [mailto:VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE]Im Auftrag von Lorin McCaffrey Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. September 2010 19:29 An: VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE Betreff: Re: Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice We (Policy Works, formerly known as Tec4 Systems) are still actively developing on VSE. No we dont monitor the ESUG mailing list. Lorin McCaffrey Director of Product Development Policy Works Commercial Management Systems Direct: 403.450.1101 Toll Free: 800.260.3676 x101 lorin.mccaffrey@policyworks.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise [mailto:VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE]Im Auftrag von Alejandro F. Reimondo Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. September 2010 21:11 An: VSWE-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE Betreff: Re: Is Cincom slowly killing Visual Smalltalk Enterprice Hi!, I have been working in development and consulting in VSE from the time it was released... nothing has changed from that time ;-) "Yes, I´m using VSE" But from my first meeting with Frank Lesser, I desided to do not wait for charity of companies interested in other bussiness and/or other "future" for Smalltalk; I accept their points of view and actions, but don't think they will change to converge to my needs. It has been some years ago, from our first meeting and now we have a much better VM (version 3.0 & still capable to host VSE applications! ) and it also can host other OO runtimes at top speed AT SAME TIME (yes, we can run more than one smalltalk environment at same time now, and we will show our vm running vse+others soon). My personal experience with VSE let me use it in situations that are more speed demanding than expected by Cincom people; there was a response of an referent of Cincom to this thread (but I do not remember if it was here) saying that VW is used in real time apps... In last years my use of VSE has been in many domains, one of them was in analysis of video information (vision stuff running on stored video databases). For that kind of use of smalltalk I need to run 5 to 10 times faster than real time!!! It is not acceptable to take one hour to process one hour of video data :-) With VSE I implemented good solutions where most processing at medium & upper levels is realized in Smalltalk under windows platform (using com, native & callback based interfaces). With Lesser-software VM we have much faster processing and let me increase the power of my product to process 3 to 4 times the frames I processed with VSE. With no modification of source code. IMO the decade that has passed from discontinuation of VSE, do not invalidate the use of the product but there are things that we need to resolve : 1.- enhancement and maintenance of VM (not the same vm, we need a mantained vm of this decade) 2.- zero cost portability; a lot of frameworks are written in other smalltalk dialects and running with other OO runtimes -e.g. javascript-; we need to use that frameworks WITHOUT porting costs (it is crazy to write and mantain sources when we have been using objects for decades). 3.- diversity - we need to support diversity in semantics (more flexible&powerfull semantics management in coherence with the first steps made in VSE but enabling more features). The point 1 is the most dificult point because it requires real experience in the field, the "I want to be a vm maker" attitude do not help in this area. [*] thanks for reading! Ale. [*] There is recent evidence to consider e.g. Jitter implementation of Squeak... an open source implementation put in the tips of an active community; that has never evolved to be part of a high perfomance Squeak implementation.
participants (6)
-
Andreas Rosenberg -
Leandro Caniglia -
stephane ducasse -
Steven Kelly -
Telebit Consulting S.r.l. -
Thomas Brey