Steve,
I do not agree with you on all points. The fact that they (Stef) managed to convince INRIA to keep on spending about 200k€ year on Smalltalk must take them a huge effort. So the frustration is very much understandable. Critisizing is easy selling ideas however is about the most difficult thing to do, we all know that !
If you are looking for problems you invite the juridical guys we all know that too !! (and for 3000€ stop stop stop !!)
Besides maybe leaving my app as a free dwonload I do absolutely nothing for the community so what can I do else then just admire these guys !!!
Even for us as VW users the Pharo principles are really cool and I only hope they find their way to our phones and desktops the sooner the better !
Regards,
@+Maarten,
> Message du 06/07/12 09:00
> De : "Steven Kelly"
> A : esug-list@lists.esug.org
> Copie à :
> Objet : Re: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium
>
> Hi Stef,
>
> You seem angry. Let's try to keep things civil and calm, even if we have different opinions.
>
> > This is fun nobody ever told us anything when the complete board was
> > programming in VW. And nobody told us anything when the complete board
> > was using Squeak. Strange no. And ESUG even manage money for the squeak
> > foundation.
>
> I think in some cases the reason is simply that we didn't know, or we weren't asked. If VW is the flagship Smalltalk as you said, it's not that surprising if sometimes the board has lots of VW users. But if the board was led by a Cincom manager, had top figures from within Cincom, and suggested paying 2000 EUR per year to Cincom "to foster business around VW and to promote VW", I think you would have some questions.
>
> >> The case for VW is easy you should give it in person to Holger
> >> Kleinsorgen for having written the Windows 7 Look and feel !!
> >
> > I would be really curious to see if cincom wants this kind of press
> > and marketing. It would be really funny.
> > VisualWorks the Smalltalk flagship sponsored by a free association
> > to develop better product. I'm not sure that it will make laugh
> > a lot of people but at least I would laugh a lot.
>
> Holger isn't a Cincom employee. His code is released for free to the Smalltalk community. Why would it be ridiculous to give a VW user 100-150€ once? That sounds like just the kind of project that ESUG has funded in the past.
>
> Personally I'm happiest with ESUG sponsorship going to individual Smalltalk users of any dialect, for projects that benefit other Smalltalkers. I'm happy to consider a project on the core of any particular dialect on its merits. But a large, repeating, non-earmarked sum of money to one dialect is something I am unlikely to support.
>
> Please, for the sake of both ESUG and Pharo, talk to the INRIA lawyers about this. IANAL, but I think you'd be risking your reputation and that of ESUG and Pharo, by being one of 3 Pharo board members, asking for money no strings attached, and then agreeing to that as the President of ESUG.
>
> If the lawyers are happy and the board decides to do this, that's fine by me, I just want to make sure.
>
> All the best,
> Steve
>
> > On Jul 5, 2012, at 10:35 AM, Steven Kelly wrote:
> >
> > > Since I didn't really see an answer to Michael Haupt's question,
> > about what is the main Smalltalk dialect of the board members, I did a
> > quick Google on their home pages, looking there or on CVs for which
> > Smalltalk is mentioned. Obviously this is not an accurate method, and
> > I'd much rather the board members answered the question - please,
> > please don't get annoyed because Google says this, just tell us what
> > the real situation is. But for what little it's worth:
> > >
> > >> here are the members of the ESUG's board:
> > >>
> > >> President: Stéphane Ducasse > > >> Treasurer: Luc Fabresse > > >> Damien Cassou > > >> Jordi Delgado > > >> Marcus Denker > > >> Alain Plantec > > >> Serge Stinckwich > > Smalltalk names to the search terms shows several, with Pharo giving
> > most hits
> > >
> > > If that's the impression a casual web browse gives, then even if it
> > is totally and utterly incorrect, hopefully the board can understand
> > why it seems reasonable to members who don't know all the details to
> > mention potential conflicts of interest.
> > >
> > > So, what does it mean that if so many on the board have a Pharo link?
> > First, it's brilliant that these people are active in doing something
> > for a Smalltalk, as well as their great work in ESUG. Second, it's
> > brilliant that Pharo people are active in wider promotion of Smalltalk
> > in general. And third, it's going to be rather difficult to have a
> > sensible vote on the board, and discussions on the members email list
> > may be a little tense :).
> > >
> > > No worries from me, though. I think it's great what ESUG are doing,
> > and great what Pharo is doing. Personally I'd rather not have ESUG
> > sponsor Pharo, but that's just one person's opinion, and hopefully
> > nobody gets upset about it.
> > >
> > > Go Smalltalk!
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Esug-list mailing list
> > > Esug-list@lists.esug.org
> > > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
>
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