Thanks Ralph. Even if authors give copyright to ACM, they can still publish on their web page and in preproceedings. I think you'll find that a vanishingly small percentage of people in industry have access to the ACM DL through their companies. I understand that publishing in the DL or similar repositories is useful for discoverability, and I can cope with the fact that those companies need to make money and so use paywalls. But please, all authors, if the publisher allows it and you want your research to be taken up by people in the real world, take the trouble to put a PDF on your web page. Cheers, Steve ________________________________ From: rjohnson.uiuc@gmail.com on behalf of Ralph Johnson Sent: Sat 28/11/2015 00:47 To: Steven Kelly Cc: ESUG Mailing list Subject: Re: [Esug-list] IWST '15 is now in the ACM DL The difference is that ACM does not hold the copyright on the papers. Instead, they were given the right to publish them, but authors keep the copyright on the papers. Thus, the authors are able to publish them in other venues, such as their own website. The ACM Digital Library is really designed for ACM members. You don't have to pay for individual articles if you are a member, you get to see all of them. Most CS professors are members. Universities can also be members, and then all the students can access the DL. I bet big companies like IBM are also members and so their employees can access the DL. The DL doesn't work so well for people in smaller companies, since neither they nor their employer are members of the ACM. So, when a conference wants to appeal to people in smaller companies, it is important to make sure that when you negotiate the contract with the ACM, you make sure that the copyright remains with the author, not with ACM. That permits you to put the papers on a web site elsewhere. -Ralph On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 9:58 AM, Steven Kelly <stevek@metacase.com> wrote: Ralph, Could you clarify that? I just went to the ACM DL for PLoP, and all the PLoP, EuroPloP and SugarloafPloP papers I tried were behind a paywall, $15 each. That's the same price as for the OOPSLA/SPLASH Domain-Specific Modeling Workshops, where IIRC authors sign away their copyright to ACM (but we link preprints from the workshop web page). All the best, Steve From: Esug-list [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Johnson Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 5:08 PM To: Marcus Denker Cc: ESUG Mailing list Subject: Re: [Esug-list] IWST '15 is now in the ACM DL In fact, ACM is easier to deal with than you might think. If you are just putting a proceedings into the DL, and not making a print version of it, you can ask them to allow copyright to stay with the authors. We did this for the PLoP series of conferences. -Ralph Johnson On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 6:46 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote: > On 26 Nov 2015, at 09:14, Alexandre Bergel <abergel@dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > > Hi Christian, > > I understand your frustration. However this is how it work as soon as one wish to publish to a wide audience. Unfortunately, there is not much we can do in that respect. > This is the current "System" of research... of course the Authors nor the universities that payed a salary for doing the research will get any money... just the leeches that did *nothing*. It is a truly shitty system and worthy to be fought against, but this is hard if you ever want to get a job or graduate. But there are activities against it... progress is slow... but e.g. ECOOP left all this and the publications are now online for free. So what people do to make it less of a problem is that they publish a "preprint" that is free to download. Preprints are on the websites of the authors (of they care) or in the central archive of the institution (if it cares). Inria (where I work) got so far that as of 2 years ago, publication that are not available for free on https://hal.inria.fr <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__hal.inria.fr&d=BQMGaQ&c =8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=1b7HP4jiYqv2J9GhsFL1RVTPCo7Df2jBmDU6HdJUM3Y&m=8VG3A mMXAGg19Z_lS5xwKI6Zmn-437r0JmMUnujR9gE&s=YKY_KurHUOUidRnScrot6S-4sr0pHRNf3ft8 58igaeo&e=> do not counted for any Inria internal metric. As far as Inria is concerned, they do not exist. E.g we are not allowed to put it in official reports or claim them when applying for internal promotion. As for IWST: there is a link here: http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2015/International-Workshop-IWST_1... <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.esug.org_wiki_pier_C onferences_2015_International-2DWorkshop-2DIWST-5F15&d=BQMGaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za 5rBPlktOQ&r=1b7HP4jiYqv2J9GhsFL1RVTPCo7Df2jBmDU6HdJUM3Y&m=8VG3AmMXAGg19Z_lS5x wKI6Zmn-437r0JmMUnujR9gE&s=xdcS9yQ9TGOYvmRhXVvz7HWVTt4qMOr0HuT5S-b2tXQ&e=> (I will upload them to http://www.esug.org/data/ESUG2015/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.esug.org_data_ESUG20 15_&d=BQMGaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=1b7HP4jiYqv2J9GhsFL1RVTPCo7Df2jBmDU6H dJUM3Y&m=8VG3AmMXAGg19Z_lS5xwKI6Zmn-437r0JmMUnujR9gE&s=Xqdfjr3ibQqW8n3Gqwigrm b3ZmqWuIeNQIDfjTLnRPc&e=> later today) Marcus . _______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list@lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.esug.org_mailman_l istinfo_esug-2Dlist-5Flists.esug.org&d=BQMGaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=1b7H P4jiYqv2J9GhsFL1RVTPCo7Df2jBmDU6HdJUM3Y&m=8VG3AmMXAGg19Z_lS5xwKI6Zmn-437r0JmM UnujR9gE&s=TQYE-RxGAc_Y8ZywFiWFQcaRlofdYm1F-r-7H8Lbeuw&e=>