Thanks, Steve, I couldn't make my point clearer than you did. It's great ESUG is there, and it's great that Pharo is pushing on Smalltalk the way and at the pace it does. It's good that both ESUG and Pharo are here and we all benefit a lot from both of them, as we do from other Smalltalk vendors' work and open source projects. I am not aware of the detailed financial situation of ESUG, but I would prefer to see things like multi-platform Smalltalk projects being supported/sponsored by ESUG. The multi-platform nature should be a high priority. Not all Smalltalkers can freely choose what dialect they use, and one of the goals of ESUG is (or should be) to help get all Smalltalkers in closer touch and make the Smalltalk worl a better place for all of us. So, if there is some yearly program in which the community can choose a project or platform to be supported financially, why not also support the Pharo Consortium? But also help Amber, GST, Seaside or whatever project in anotrher year. I am glad people are volunteering for the ESUG board, and I am grateful for the organizers of the ESUG conference and all the other good stuff ESUG is doing. I am also happy about the drive behind Pharo. But these are two pairs of shoes. Joachim Am 04.07.12 22:25, schrieb Steven Kelly:
Thanks for asking us. Personally I think it would be better for ESUG not to contribute financially to Pharo. In general, user groups don't contribute financially to the organizations which make the products in question - indeed, often it works the other way around, with the product organizations sponsoring user groups or their activities.
I'm sure everyone would agree that any board members with a clear connection to Pharo should declare a conflict of interest on this issue, and refrain from discussion or voting. That's standard practice, and for good reason. Even when a board is completely open, honest, and declares even potentially perceived conflicts of interest, those outside the board will always be outsiders, and liable to feel not everything is being revealed - that's just human nature.
It's great that the board is asking for our opinions, and I'm sure they'll make the best decision for ESUG. And whatever happens, I'm sure Pharo and other Smalltalks know ESUG is very much on their side.
All the best, Steve PS useful advice on conflicts of interest for non-profits: http://www.boardsource.org/Knowledge.asp?ID=3.389 -- Steven Kelly, CTO, MetaCase
-----Original Message----- From: esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org [mailto:esug-list- bounces@lists.esug.org] On Behalf Of Damien Cassou Sent: 4. heinäkuuta 2012 18:02 To: ESUG Mailing list Subject: [Esug-list] ESUG considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium
The ESUG board currently considers sponsoring the Pharo Consortium (see http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2012- June/066881.html). We believe that Pharo is important for the Smalltalk ecosystem.
Note that ESUG is promoting Smalltalk in general and this action is in the same vein as previous actions such as sponsoring local Smalltalk groups (FAST, Catalan, Russian, ...), Smalltalk dialects (SqueakFoundation, etoy), development projects (Mars, DBXTalk, DrGeo II, SqueakVirtual Machine cleaning), and books (Seaside and GNU book).
Before deciding, the board would like to gather feedback from the community. We want to be clear that there is a strict distinction between ESUG and Pharo (both consortium and association) even if some people are involved in both.
What do you think?
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
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