I dont believe anyone said that Pier was bad. I think they said it wasn't newbie friendly because of the lack of documentation. On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 4:35 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor.girba@gmail.com> wrote:
I believe that Alex wanted to say that the basic functionalities should be so self evident that they should not need documentation.
Regarding Pier, Lukas did an excellent job of building a content management system for programmers. You would not say about Seaside for example that it is bad because you cannot program it with drag and drop. It is the same for Pier. The main focus was to get it beautiful from a model point of view.
To add a user-friendly interface on top of it would require an explicit and new project on top of Pier. The infrastructure is there and is powerful.
Cheers, Doru
On 19 Mar 2011, at 21:48, Sean Allen wrote:
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel <abergel@dcc.uchile.cl> wrote:
2) Yes. I have used and ported Pier, and presented it to non-Smalltalkers, and I have noticed that very small how-to or clarification things could delay me and would undoubtedly affect a non-Smalltalk user. (Some of it was just order of presentation - the how-to's that a non-Smalltalker wants first are not too hard to find - if you're a Smalltalker and so can guess where to look.) It would be good to watch people starting to use Smalltalk's 'best-practice' web suite and see what's slowing them.
There is no need of how-to's for Pier for basic usage (e.g., editing pages, adding menus, doing internal links, adding users). It is wrong to think this is necessary. I have never read the documentation of SimpleCMS, simply there isn't and there is no need to.
You are apparently much smarter than I. I struggled mightly w/ getting going with Pier and finally gave up and moved on to other things. I doubt I'm an outlier on that. I'd love if there was much better documentation but, I'm definitely not the person to do it as I still don't really get how to work with Pier. It is very non-intuitive for me.
Even if it is dirt simple to use, people are going to look at recipes, how-tos and general documentation when picking a CMS. Most people pick a CMS to make things easier not because they think 'o i really want to use X language'.
-Sean-
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