Stéphane Ducasse wrote
this is fun that you shoot on us
I guess you really know I'm not shooting at anyone, and you don't need to react negatively. I stand by my comments, both praise and (hopefully insightful and constructive) criticism, and welcome any debate on the actual points.
while you were never able to come and present your products at ESUG while I'm sure that it would have helped the community.
You've been good at asking me to come over the years - well done! As I've replied each time, I don't like travel, and I have to do a lot of it for our business. I've presented MetaEdit+ at the Cincom Smalltalk conference in Frankfurt, and many times at OOPSLA and ECOOP. Presenting at those places has made commercial sense; presenting at ESUG hasn't seemed to - mostly because the attendees aren't potential customers. That's just the way companies make decisions. I actually discussed entering MetaEdit+ for the ESUG innovation competition one year, and the other judges were open to a commercial product, but you didn't like the idea (which is fine). I'm glad that as a result of that discussion the competition is open to all now.
Now I like all the talking here, but how many are we to do something for others (I mean others than our little business).
I don't do much for ESUG, but in my small way I try and help the Smalltalk community. I love Smalltalk but hate travel, so most of what I do is in the virtual world - helping others on discussion lists, and publishing things in the Cincom public repository. Admittedly all VW not Squeak/Pharo, so less visible to you, but hopefully still useful. If it's any comfort, last week I sent out posters and CFPs for ESUG2011 to several universities and mailing lists. All the best, Steve "to give and not to count the cost; to fight and not to heed the wounds; to toil and not to seek for rest; to labour and not to ask for any reward"
On Mar 22, 2011, at 3:03 PM, Steven Kelly wrote:
It's great that people are willing to talk about this, and some are doing things too. Admit it though: most of this discussion is programmers talking about marketing, which is as useful as marketers talking about programming. I'm in my 20th year of Smalltalk, so I've seen this a fair few times. My 2c: I'm fairly certain that the only way Smalltalk could achieve major success is by dying and being reborn with a new name.
If anyone has a minute (and access rights!), the ESUG pages could do with some love: 1) they crashed yesterday, and have often slowed to a crawl 2) there's a top-level menu "Robotics" that leads to a page saying "A place for Jordi to write, ok!" 3) The search box does nothing 4) On IE8, there are Javascript errors. All pages have "Ajax is not defined", and many have some "idX is not defined" errors (for various X)
Believe it or not, those are the kinds of things that register with outsiders when they check out Smalltalk, in particular if they're considering using it to build things on the web. Of course I understand this is all done as volunteer work, and I appreciate the effort people have put into it. I'm just pointing out the facts and providing a bug report.
All the best, Steve -- Steven Kelly, Ph.D. Co-President and CTO, MetaCase Tel.: +358 14 641 000 ext. 21 Fax: +358 420 648 606 Cell: +358 40 7331 286 Web: www.metacase.com Blog: www.metacase.com/blogs/stevek/blogView Email: steven.kelly@metacase.com
SD TIMES 100 Winner 2007 & 2008 MetaCase Recognized as Software Development Leader and Innovator
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