BTW since everybody wants to give lessons here is our internal process. A board member never votes when he has a conflict of interest. For example when a student applies for an article sponsoring (even 150 Euros), if a board member is in the group of the student or may have any conflict of interest, the board member does not take part of the discussion or the voting process. This is always like that. Now as a good exercise for our little community, it would be good that everybody check what he did recently not for its own little assets (my little program my precious my little business my precious) but for somebody else asset. I wrote and edited the seaside book and I should have better wrote something on ruby on rails because we earned a ridiculous amount of money and it was 4 years of work (but this does not count) and I pushed so that we get all dialects represented, while I could have simply focus on Pharo. Similarly, we sponsored conferences like FAST and Smalltalk Solutions, summerTalk projects, user groups and we are systematically promoting Smalltalk. Now I'm a bit worried about some reactions especially the rhetorical part of them. It seems to me that in our community we do not like success - probably because this is better to be the king of a small castle than a knight in a kingdom. Personally I would prefer to be able to build graphical system like D3 in Javascript with my Smalltalk but I cannot. So may be Javascript is the future of any smart smalltalker. Personally I want the success of Smalltalk and I built the tools to make it happen. Pharo is one of such tool. We built pharo because the tools in presence were not there to push the way we wanted. Just for your information, we are making pharo not for US but for people to be able to make money with it. Now if somebody would come, fork pharo and make our dream reality by being better than pharo we would be more than happy. Why because doing pharo is a pain. People complain, doing is slow, we have other agendas. I'm talking with lawyers INRIA since two years for the consortium. INRIA put 180 Keuros for pharo on the table and we are negotiating to get another 60 K. Our little team will also put 30 Keuros plus a massive amount of our free hours. Of course smart people can think that this is because this is for us. No it is not, we are building pharo for the community. In fact I would like to build other systems than pharo but so far the state of the system implementations does not let us experiment (proprietary or old systems), so we are basically forced to build pharo if we want to invent our future. May be some people do not want to have a future. But we do. Now you can not trust us or be against it this is your rights. So it would be a problem that ESUG the organization promoting Smalltalk has a problem to pay 2000/4000 Euros, when I see what our group is putting or INRIA. Seriously, if this is the case we should really be clear about that and rethink what is ESUG and also probably do something else of our free time. Stef On Jul 5, 2012, at 8:49 AM, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
Il 05/07/2012 08:47, Stéphane Ducasse ha scritto:
Reading this thread after all we did for Smalltalk is quite taught. The wolfs are back apparently. Sad period. I think the esug board will have to really decide if ESUG is worth after all. Now may be ESUG popularity is a problem for certain people or this is the pharo popularity. May be this is good to not give a chance to a promising open source project (especially when we see that such question never arose when it was about other Smalltalks). Life is so funny sometimes.
No Stephane, it's not that. Part of it is just misinformation and I think that was clarified; the other part is just basic handling of conflict of interest, and I think it's in ESUG's interest to keep its usual level of transparency.
Paolo
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