Completely agreed, Helge.

I also have to wonder if the Smalltalk community would really benefit
as much as everyone seems to think from having a "successful CMS
written in Smalltalk". Does anyone who uses Wordpress care much what
language it is written in? I guess there could be some vague
peripheral benefit in terms of the appearance of acceptability, but
really the only way to have a successful CMS is to write a good CMS,
and at that point people are judging the product, not the language it
was written in.

So, sure, someone could go create a great, free CMS with Smalltalk.
But why do we as a community feel a need to champion the idea? Is it
just that we want to be able to use our favourite language to write
CMS plugins?

Julian

On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 8:36 AM, Helge Nowak <hknowak@yahoo.de> wrote:
> Janko and ariliquin: very well said!
>
> The original poster's intention was to create a Smalltalk based CMS as
> successful as the leading open source ones. This can only be reached by
> making the system easily accessible to end users, not developers. Developers
> are��a minority. They don't decide on what will be used as an end user tool
> in companies, organizations and communities.
>
> If we think Pier and Scribo shall be end user tools they need end user UIs.
> If we don't think so we have to accept the fact that their target audience
> is the Smalltalk fraction of the developer community.
> As Ralph said: marketing is thinking about your market first and then build,
> advertize and distribute��your offfering to your target segment's needs and
> expectations. And don't forget your return on investment! Without ROI people
> will soon leave because no-one can afford to just spend.
>
> My 2 ��� Cents
> Helge
> ________________________________
> Von: Janko Miv��ek <janko.mivsek@eranova.si>
> An: ESUG Mailing list <esug-list@lists.esug.org>
> Gesendet: Montag, den 21. M��rz 2011, 0:02:48 Uhr
> Betreff: Re: [Esug-list] Smalltalk hosting ...
>
> Well said, thanks! I also beleive that a right way to the average "CMS
> user" friendly CMS is to hide Smalltalk as long as possible, until user
> is encouraged enough to customize his website in depth.
>
> And in this customization is where we actually have an advantage over
> others. But, we need to build that non-Smalltalk front part first. There
> is no way to skip that part.
>
> Best regards
> Janko
>
> On 20. 03. 2011 23:49, ariliquin wrote:
>> I am a smalltalk newbie and interested in Smalltalk CMS. In answer to your
>> question, from my point of view, I would like to say:
>>
>> 1. The ability to achieve something functional, say a my own custom main
>> page, quickly and easily, is very encouraging (I haven't even begun to be
>> able to do this in Pier etc, I am still wading through the concepts that
>> are
>> being presented, as opposed to the functionality that is made easily
>> accessible).
>>
>> 2. The CMS is built on top of the Smalltalk platform, both an advantage
>> for
>> obvious reasons, yet a big disadvantage for this reason, from my point of
>> view: I have to be familiar with Smalltalk BEFORE I can even approach the
>> CMS. I don't mean familiar with the finer details and vast libraries, I
>> mean
>> familiar with the main screen and how to simple navigate, what the
>> concepts
>> are, the terminologies etc etc etc etc. NO other CMS requires this as
>> obviously as Pier. The Smalltalk interface is NOT intuitive. I am not
>> spoon
>> feed everything. I have to research and digest and understand and grow to
>> be
>> able to do anything here. Yes, there are many simple concepts, however my
>> experience was, upon seeing the Smalltalk environment in its totality, was
>> to be completely lost.
>>
>> 3. Every other CMS like Wordpress, Concrete 5, Joomla are designed to
>> present a user interface, not a programmer interface. Hence they are
>> attractive to users immediately, in general. Yes a programmer can delve in
>> and do things, but a user can get things they want done, point and click.
>> (Although some of the interfaces can be overwhelming with navigations etc,
>> also).
>>
>> If you want a SmallTalk CMS that is Amazingly Attractive to End users and
>> Programmers, this would be a good start for me:
>>
>> Provide a USER interface that can be used to quickly produce publishable
>> content (a lot of work, as many have pointed out, yet achieved by many
>> other
>> CMS projects)
>>
>> Provide an underlying Programmer interface that gives simple and powerful
>> access to the framework to allow extension and manipulation of the system
>> (already there)
>>
>> Identify the STRENGTHS of smalltalk, LEVERAGE these and present these, in
>> a
>> simple and meaningful way, to End USERS and programmers, to create a CMS
>> with capabilities that others cannot match easily and that is Attractive
>> because of its inherent nature and abilities.
>>
>> Provide Tutorials, Video How-To's and Documentation from Within the CMS.
>> This is were I am wondering how to do things, this should be were I find
>> the
>> answers also.
>
>
> --
> Janko Miv��ek
> Aida/Web
> Smalltalk Web Application Server
> http://www.aidaweb.si
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> Esug-list@lists.esug.org
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> Esug-list@lists.esug.org
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
>
>

_______________________________________________
Esug-list mailing list
Esug-list@lists.esug.org
http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org